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Discussion Starter #1
In my opinion they simply destroyed the VIPER SRT,in few words it was inferior in every area, it didn't stop as good s the ZR1, brakes fade, suspension is inferior, even the seat isn't as comftable as in the ZR1

Motor Trend didn't liked it, and what to say about Pobst, he destoyed it.

It would be very interesting to her wht Ralph has to say, of course not chicken, I mean, is it real all those issues they complained about the VIPER SRT?

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/17/motor-trend-pits-srt-viper-against-chevy-corvette-zr1/#continued
 

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I guess it comes down to tires, like when the ACR obliterated the field in 08. Other manufacturers stepped up to the Cup tires and got huge improvements in their cars, not enough to be the Gen IV ACR, but definitely huge improvements.

A Cup shod SRT Viper will even the balance. SRT Viper ACR FTW!
 

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They did not destroy it. They actually liked the car just had a few dislikes. They loved the power, said it had great turn in etc etc. Probst was actually more praising than I figured he would be.

They did say the ZR1 had better brakes with less fade.. which it does. It has carbon ceramic brakes...
They did say the ZR1 has a broader availability of torque... I really don't know here, but my guess is it does it the Viper peaks at 5000rpm.
They did say the ZR1 feels like it has more grip... Well it does have Cup tires on it, so my guess is it does, put them on the Viper and you have a new story.
They did say the ZR1 rides softer and is more comfortable... my guess is it does, the suspension on the ZR1 is world class and amazing.
They said the Viper was flatter through corners and had less nose dive than the ZR1... Which is a good thing.
They just said it was harder to drive at the limit basically, which it always has been and what people were afraid it was going to lose. So Viper fans should be ecstatic and further they DID say that they were told the seats and sound deadening were not finalized. They didn't have to mention that at all.

Overall I thought it was actually laid out more fairly in the video than it was in the article. I still think the ZR1 was a ringer, but whatever...
 

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Do realize this is only the base model viper from what I'm aware of vs the highest end vette....

The ZR1 is what 125-150k? and the viper is 100k or so?
 

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Ralph Gilles has made mention to improvements to the Viper since this test.

..and wants a re-test lol
 

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Isn't this just the video version of the bad MT review? What's the novelty?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
UN4GTBL said:
Ralph Gilles has made mention to improvements to the Viper since this test.

..and wants a re-test lol
We would like to know about those improvements, but the truth is that the ZR1 has much better brakes and suspension, so let's hear from Ralph
 

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JRS200x said:
Around like $125 fully loaded as I recall
A FULLY loaded Viper GTS could eclipse 160k at MSRP (Premium Stereo, Laguna Leather, Stryker Red Tinted Pearl (a nearly 15k option by itself), Interior CF styling group, External CF styling group, CF aero group, plus gas tax and destination charge)
Though this is the extreme case, most GTS models come in the 130k range (according to Woodhouse, one of the nation's top Viper dealers).

What puzzles me about this review is the brake fade they felt (although this was subjectively determined, as they provided no data to back up their claims). The Gen IV with stoptech two-piece rotors never had any problems with brake fade in any of the reviews I've read (likely the vast majority of them). Also, why wouldn't they send a car with the aero package when the ZR-1 has it's optional aero, and why don't they have a hose connecting the brake cooling ducts to the front brakes?

On another note, It seemed like Pobst was braking in the Viper earlier than the Corvette, although there was only a 1 or 2 foot difference in 60-0 stopping distance between the ZR1 and the GTS. The data they showed demonstrated that the cars entered the corners at almost exactly the same speed, and the Viper had a little advantage in acceleration through the straights.
 

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kdaviper said:
On another note, It seemed like Pobst was braking in the Viper earlier than the Corvette, although there was only a 1 or 2 foot difference in 60-0 stopping distance between the ZR1 and the GTS. The data they showed demonstrated that the cars entered the corners at almost exactly the same speed, and the Viper had a little advantage in acceleration through the straights.
I think you just answered your own question. The Viper was carrying more speed into the corner, so it needed braking earlier to help Pobst to feel "comfortable" apexing the corner. Which resulted in the brakes getting hotter than they needed to be etc.

The brakes getting hot question could easily be non production spec fluid, or a pad material that wasnt production spec. Heck, it could be that the brake cooling duct hoses werent ready yet, and the car got sent out without them? Its a pre-production car, so who really knows.

All I know is that SRT should have known something like this was going to happen, and just telling the rags that the car was pre-production wasn't enough. They should have realized that a comparison was going to be the first thing to happen, and they should have shipped thier "A" game. Bottom line is that they didn't, for whatever reason, and now Viper/SRT has to deal with some egg on the face based on the perception that it is inferior to the Vette.

We all know better, but perception is reality to most people.

Danno
 
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JRS200x said:
They did not destroy it. They actually liked the car just had a few dislikes. They loved the power, said it had great turn in etc etc. Probst was actually more praising than I figured he would be.

They did say the ZR1 had better brakes with less fade.. which it does. It has carbon ceramic brakes...
They did say the ZR1 has a broader availability of torque... I really don't know here, but my guess is it does it the Viper peaks at 5000rpm.
They did say the ZR1 feels like it has more grip... Well it does have Cup tires on it, so my guess is it does, put them on the Viper and you have a new story.
They did say the ZR1 rides softer and is more comfortable... my guess is it does, the suspension on the ZR1 is world class and amazing.
They said the Viper was flatter through corners and had less nose dive than the ZR1... Which is a good thing.
They just said it was harder to drive at the limit basically, which it always has been and what people were afraid it was going to lose. So Viper fans should be ecstatic and further they DID say that they were told the seats and sound deadening were not finalized. They didn't have to mention that at all.

Overall I thought it was actually laid out more fairly in the video than it was in the article. I still think the ZR1 was a ringer, but whatever...
Don't forgot they said the Viper's shifter felt better and more precise. Both Pobst and the fat guy said that.
 

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This was a pre-production car. What it needs most is a driver upgrade. I predict that the Leguna Seca record will be broken by SRT or someone affiliated with the Viper club.
 

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kdaviper said:
What puzzles me about this review is the brake fade they felt (although this was subjectively determined, as they provided no data to back up their claims). The Gen IV with stoptech two-piece rotors never had any problems with brake fade in any of the reviews I've read (likely the vast majority of them). Also, why wouldn't they send a car with the aero package when the ZR-1 has it's optional aero, and why don't they have a hose connecting the brake cooling ducts to the front brakes?
The stopping distance may have been about the same cold, but once fade sets in, stopping distances increases and driver confidence goes down. MotorTrend are not the only ones to have noticed some brake-fade on the new Viper. I've read about it in more than one review.

The Viper is using 14" steel rotors with 4-piston two-piece calipers. The ZR1 has ~15" Carbon-Ceramic rotors with 6-piston single-piece calipers. The brakes are just not going to be able to compete.
 

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Its not over till the fat lady sings.
 

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AutoTechnician said:
The stopping distance may have been about the same cold, but once fade sets in, stopping distances increases and driver confidence goes down. MotorTrend are not the only ones to have noticed some brake-fade on the new Viper. I've read about it in more than one review.
The Viper is using 14" steel rotors with 4-piston two-piece calipers. The ZR1 has ~15" Carbon-Ceramic rotors with 6-piston single-piece calipers. The brakes are just not going to be able to compete.
Agreed. The important question that remains to be answered is: who was the marketing person that sent out this viper optioned out this way (I.e. not optimized or track) to a MT showdown with the ZR1? IIRC Gilles said that the Viper will have no marketing except for Magazines and web promotion: MT (unfortunately) is a top tier car enthustiast magazine, and this was not a good way to start...
Waddayknow, Chrysler messing up marketing...
 
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"IIRC Gilles said that the Viper will have no marketing except for Magazines and web promotion: MT (unfortunately) is a top tier car enthustiast magazine, and this was not a good way to start..."
 

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