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Bottom line is, all three cars can be bought from a dealership, whether it was built outside the factory assembly line or not, so that is not a disqualification. The Mustang is indeed faster, one can yell tires, tires, tires, all day long, it's still faster. Weight is an issue and always has been for Mopars, they are just built a little bit sturdier, which I don't have a problem with, but in this day and age, and with the technology of stronger and lighter, well, time to take a little bit of that knowledge and make them about 400 lbs lighter than they are now, THEN we can see if the numbers still stand up.
To make a Challenger weigh in the same ballpark as a Mustang means a smaller car, all other things being equal, which is not desired by people buying Challengers.
 

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Jeepaholic
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There's not that much of a size difference between the three, nor is there that much of a weight difference either. Sure, Challenger is the biggest of the three with definitely the most comfortable back seat, but these three are all slightly different variations on a theme. Call them pony cars or muscle cars...whatever you like.

Shedding weight is all well and good, and great if you can do it, but they're not little roadsters and they're never going to weigh as much as a Miata.
 

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LOL, of course subcompact(Camaro) and midsize(Challenger) cars are the same category.
Um, yeah they pretty much are, why else would they be compared as frequently as they are? Take this thread for example. If you’re not familiar with the history of these three vehicles, that’s ok, perhaps you should do some research as to why they are compared?
 

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Jeepaholic
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Mustang dimensions:
188″ L x 75″ W x 54-55″ H
Curb weight: 3,532 to 3,825 lbs
Cargo volume: 11.4 to 13.5 ft³

Camaro dimensions:
188-190″ L x 75″ W x 53″ H
Curb weight: 3,351 to 4,120 lbs
Cargo volume: 7.3 to 9.1 ft³

Challenger dimensions:
198″ L x 76″ W x 56-58″ H
Curb weight: 3,894 to 4,429 lbs
Cargo volume: 16.2 ft³

Challenger is about 8-10 inches longer, about the same width and height. Slightly more cargo room than Mustang....Camaro might as well not even have a trunk. Weights are similar, with the heaviest being Challenger.

2-door, RWD cars with large engine bays that can accommodate insane engines.

Yeah, I don’t see why they would be compared at all. :rolleyes:
 

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Yeah, 350 lbs or more is a bit of a challenge. That figures out to about half a pound or more to a horsepower, and that's quite a bit when in this category of weight to hp performance. Where can the weight reduction come from? You got me there, especially in keeping it safe as possible, but that is the only solution. More hp isn't the answer because you still have to get the power to the ground in order to take advantage of it.
 

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2017 Charger Pursuit AWD
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I just find it amusing how everyone overlooks the car that hooks - and that is the Charger.
Except at the strip, the outta-the-box Charger remains the car to beat. If Dodge would wake up and price the Charger more competitively, especially the 5.7 and 6.4 retail models, they'd pick up even more sales from guys and gals that are doing some cross-make/model shopping.
 

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Yeah, 350 lbs or more is a bit of a challenge. That figures out to about half a pound or more to a horsepower, and that's quite a bit when in this category of weight to hp performance. Where can the weight reduction come from? You got me there, especially in keeping it safe as possible, but that is the only solution. More hp isn't the answer because you still have to get the power to the ground in order to take advantage of it.
I've seen just today some discussion of dropping as much as 300 lbs from midsize cars by using more high-strength steels, but those were FWDs, so that does change the equation a bit. Nippon Steel has come up with a high strength steel that will reduce a car body weight by 30%, putting it on par with aluminum, and giving a superior product, but no idea on the cost.
 

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I've seen just today some discussion of dropping as much as 300 lbs from midsize cars by using more high-strength steels, but those were FWDs, so that does change the equation a bit. Nippon Steel has come up with a high strength steel that will reduce a car body weight by 30%, putting it on par with aluminum, and giving a superior product, but no idea on the cost.
I have a 2011 Mustang, so I can’t speak to the current model, but the car feels somewhat heavy to me...but I like that feeling. It feels sturdy to me, and I think someone else here mentioned that same feeling from Challenger. I don’t have any experience with Camaro...and I want to keep that streak alive. Lol.

Driving my A3 vs the Mustang, (yes, vastly different vehicles), I can certainly tell a difference in “feel”. The A3 is a great car, it just feels slightly built...I’m petrified of potholes when driving it. I didn’t have that same fear driving the Mustang...I tried to avoid the potholes, but it wasn’t a life crisis if I hit one.

American muscle cars just have a different “feel” to them...I liken it to the different feel of driving my Liberty vs driving another SUV/CUV. Different as night and day.

I’m concerned that if they drop too much weight, they’d lose that “feeling”. I don’t know, I’m probably making more out that than it needs to be...and my days of driving muscle cars are probably over once I get rid of said Mustang. But for me, the feel of the vehicle is what makes these cars special & unique. They’re not European sports cars...or roadsters...they’re muscle cars (or insert the term that suits you).

Like I said, my days of having guns in the fight are rapidly coming to an end....
 

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American muscle cars just have a different “feel” to them...I liken it to the different feel of driving my Liberty vs driving another SUV/CUV. Different as night and day.

I’m concerned that if they drop too much weight, they’d lose that “feeling”. I don’t know, I’m probably making more out that than it needs to be...and my days of driving muscle cars are probably over once I get rid of said Mustang. But for me, the feel of the vehicle is what makes these cars special & unique. They’re not European sports cars...or roadsters...they’re muscle cars (or insert the term that suits you).
A solid rear axle will do that:)
 
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Jeepaholic
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Mustang dimensions:
188″ L x 75″ W x 54-55″ H
Curb weight: 3,532 to 3,825 lbs
Cargo volume: 11.4 to 13.5 ft³

Camaro dimensions:
188-190″ L x 75″ W x 53″ H
Curb weight: 3,351 to 4,120 lbs
Cargo volume: 7.3 to 9.1 ft³

Challenger dimensions:
198″ L x 76″ W x 56-58″ H
Curb weight: 3,894 to 4,429 lbs
Cargo volume: 16.2 ft³

Challenger is about 8-10 inches longer, about the same width and height. Slightly more cargo room than Mustang....Camaro might as well not even have a trunk. Weights are similar, with the heaviest being Challenger.

2-door, RWD cars with large engine bays that can accommodate insane engines.

Yeah, I don’t see why they would be compared at all. :rolleyes:
GT500 is over 4000 lbs though. Non carbon fiber package cars (base) is I believe over 4100 lbs.
 
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To me a Mustang compares to a 3 series coupe (aka 4 series now) while a Challenger is more like a 6 series (aka 8 series now). Not that people are cross shopping those even though they should! :)
 

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Jeepaholic
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GT500 is over 4000 lbs though. Non carbon fiber package cars (base) is I believe over 4100 lbs.
Yeah, I don’t think those numbers were all inclusive as I thought the GT500 was heavier. It’s a good generalization for comparison though, as I was stating that I think people make more of a big deal about the “weight” of Challenger. Depending on variants, these cars can be pretty similar in weight.
 

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Yeah, I don’t think those numbers were all inclusive as I thought the GT500 was heavier. It’s a good generalization for comparison though, as I was stating that I think people make more of a big deal about the “weight” of Challenger. Depending on variants, these cars can be pretty similar in weight.
A kid on YouTube with a channel called Speed Phenom weighed his non-CFTP car and it came in at 4080 lbs. The carbon fiber package cars should weigh about 80 lbs less based upon wheel weight savings and rear seat delete. So while it's still a porker, it weighs less than many predicted.
 
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A kid on YouTube with a channel called Speed Phenom weighed his non-CFTP car and it came in at 4080 lbs. The carbon fiber package cars should weigh about 80 lbs less based upon wheel weight savings and rear seat delete. So while it's still a porker, it weighs less than many predicted.
I read that his tank was not full though when he filmed that. I believe usually cars are weight with a full tank of gas? Which seems too small in a Mustang fo begin with at only 16 gallons. C&D has the CFTP GT500 at 4059 lbs.
 
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A regular stock 2016 Hellcat with 707 hp and drag radial can run 10.80's easily....

The 717 hp should be a few tenths quicker and the Red Eye should run low 10's!

Heck 392 Challengers run upper 11's!!! Not even the 1320!

Remember cars that have power and spin,it's the driver ... I can make cars hook with street tires better than some guys with drag radials!! Hellcats like to spin more so than Mustang/Camaro..

But whatever,the Challenger looks better and is a real car not just a 2 seater! You can fit 5 adults easily ,smoother ride,better road manners and a better road car than a Camaro/Mustang! Even so,for example:I don't care if the 5.7 Hemi Challenger has a 4 banger Mustang stuck to it's bumper in a 0-60 race,the Challenger looks and SOUNDS better and is more comfortable!

Who cares if the Mustang is quicker...its ugly,small car that is uncomfortable! When I spend money on a car I want it to drive good,not feel every bump on the road and I want it to fit people,after all it's a people mover..My Hellcat Challenger is a people mover and it does it better than any other car!
 

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Considering where the auto industry is heading I'm just happy we still have (quasi) affordable American V8 muscle cars available. Personally I think they all have their niche, although the Camaro is so hamstrung by its ergonomics/packaging that it's easy to see why sales are so bad.
 
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I read that his tank was not full though when he filmed that. I believe usually cars are weight with a full tank of gas? Which seems too small in a Mustang fo begin with at only 16 gallons. C&D has the CFTP GT500 at 4059 lbs.
I was reading a new GT500's owners posts where they were only getting 230 mile on a tank with mostly highway driving. Apparently it will pass everything but a gas station.
 
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