[sickboy]

I've seen just today some discussion of dropping as much as 300 lbs from midsize cars by using more high-strength steels, but those were FWDs, so that does change the equation a bit. Nippon Steel has come up with a high strength steel that will reduce a car body weight by 30%, putting it on par with aluminum, and giving a superior product, but no idea on the cost.

Savage geese on yt had put it perfectly when reviewing the Shelby. It is an economy car at its core. Same as challenger and Camaro. They need to be able to sell the car at 25 grand, as well as 100 grand.
Loose enough weight, and the price would be too much. Not to mention most buyers expect 200k+ miles out of these cars, and what cheap easy repairs

 

[Cajun300C]

When you have no competition, you become complacent. This just gives FCA reason to compete and not sit on their posteriors.......

 

[Tony K]

Savage geese on yt had put it perfectly when reviewing the Shelby. It is an economy car at its core. Same as challenger and Camaro. They need to be able to sell the car at 25 grand, as well as 100 grand.
Loose enough weight, and the price would be too much. Not to mention most buyers expect 200k+ miles out of these cars, and what cheap easy repairs

This is where brands like AR and even moreso Maserati can really make a difference to the overall auto industry. Early adopters have money, and are willing to foot the bill for development - witness Tesla. When people complain about the cost of Giorgio development, for example, they take a short-term view to its extreme and complain that Chrysler and Dodge are getting screwed. Perhaps in the short term, but the long game, the strategic endstate is what really matters. High end brands that use production-line architecture pay dividends in the long term, since that architecture can be translated to mass market cars. Finances really hamstrung translating Giorgio into the rest of FCA, particularly US core brands, which is unfortunate. Likewise the failure of AR to translate Giorgio into a car with initial reliability good enough to not turn press report into "more of the same" in that respect. Yet, folks need to stop brooding over it, clean up the spilled milk, and be glad that we're entering a new era of Mopar with the merger and ascendancy of Mr. Tavares.

 

[hmk123]

This is where brands like AR and even moreso Maserati can really make a difference to the overall auto industry. Early adopters have money, and are willing to foot the bill for development - witness Tesla. When people complain about the cost of Giorgio development, for example, they take a short-term view to its extreme and complain that Chrysler and Dodge are getting screwed. Perhaps in the short term, but the long game, the strategic endstate is what really matters. High end brands that use production-line architecture pay dividends in the long term, since that architecture can be translated to mass market cars. Finances really hamstrung translating Giorgio into the rest of FCA, particularly US core brands, which is unfortunate. Likewise the failure of AR to translate Giorgio into a car with initial reliability good enough to not turn press report into "more of the same" in that respect. Yet, folks need to stop brooding over it, clean up the spilled milk, and be glad that we're entering a new era of Mopar with the merger and ascendancy of Mr. Tavares.

IMHO the problem for the auto industry is that for those that can afford higher end BMWs and ARs that they have been serving us filet mignons for so long that people are just "full". And unfortunately AR came at the end of the meal where BMW and others have "served" and perfected sport sedans for years. Plus, you are getting to the limitations of what is physical possible. I would argue it is harder to be impressed today than it was ten years ago.

The other problem with the market is that it almost seems upside down. Those inexpensive vehicles that are supposed to make money through volumes now sell in lower volumes than more expensive models. It is not even just Fiat. Look at the Honda Fit for example.

For me the two iconic car history moments were seeing the 2005 Chrysler 300C for the first time live and then learning that the Hellcat was going to have 707hp. If one can produce hits like that over and over again they wouldn't be hits anymore. I think we have just been spoiled and in one-hundred years people might wonder why we didn't try harder to tackle real problems instead of adding more emojis to our phones or gesture control to our cars...

 

[Tony K]

IMHO the problem for the auto industry is that for those that can afford higher end BMWs and ARs that they have been serving us filet mignons for so long that people are just "full". And unfortunately AR came at the end of the meal where BMW and others have "served" and perfected sport sedans for years. Plus, you are getting to the limitations of what is physical possible. I would argue it is harder to be impressed today than it was ten years ago.

We've been told that before, and especially where tech is concerned, we keep getting surprised. I'm not just talking computing, but things like high-strength steel. Nippon Steel has come up with tech to reduce the weight of a car by 30%. That won't come cheaply, especially at first, so initially would be limited to more expensive cars like a Maserati, then an AR, until critical market mass is achieved to bring that cost down to mass market sustainable levels. That's the nature of the beast.

 

[T_690]

We've been told that before, and especially where tech is concerned, we keep getting surprised. I'm not just talking computing, but things like high-strength steel. Nippon Steel has come up with tech to reduce the weight of a car by 30%. That won't come cheaply, especially at first, so initially would be limited to more expensive cars like a Maserati, then an AR, until critical market mass is achieved to bring that cost down to mass market sustainable levels. That's the nature of the beast.

Do you even know how much BIW car weighs?

 

[hmk123]

How about a Hellcat that gets 50mpg with lower emissions. That would be an amazing achievement.

 

[Zagnut27]

I was reading a new GT500's owners posts where they were only getting 230 mile on a tank with mostly highway driving. Apparently it will pass everything but a gas station.

Hey, there’s apparently “world famous” fried chicken at some of those gas stations, so it’s worth the stop!

 

[Tin Man 2]

We've been told that before, and especially where tech is concerned, we keep getting surprised. I'm not just talking computing, but things like high-strength steel. Nippon Steel has come up with tech to reduce the weight of a car by 30%. That won't come cheaply, especially at first, so initially would be limited to more expensive cars like a Maserati, then an AR, until critical market mass is achieved to bring that cost down to mass market sustainable levels. That's the nature of the beast.

They did not claim to reduce the weight of a car 30% they said the weight of the body could be reduced by 30%, big difference . At what cost?

 

[Tony K]

They did not claim to reduce the weight of a car 30% they said the weight of the body could be reduced by 30%, big difference . At what cost?

True, but 30% of the body is still a considerable weight loss. They also talked about reducing component weight, and further reducing body weight by 50% with other techniques that would involve other materials like plastic. No costs given. I already said that won't come cheaply.