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Now that we have a couple of Grand Cherokee L's on the lot there is no doubt in my mind that it is going to sell well. My concern is that Stellantis will have un realistic projections for sales of these Jeeps. How many Grand Waggoneers do they actually expect to sell per year? While I believe The Grand Wagoneer is a TRUE Cadillac Escalade competitor. I caution the execs at Stellantis to remember that the Escalade has had a 21year head start and when they first came out they were priced in the 50-60k range and the Cadillac name has been around for 100+years and was synonymous with luxury. Will the Grand Wagoneer sell? Absolutely, the question is how many.

Escalade only sells about 25k units per year......BMW X7, Audi8, Range Rover Lexus LX, Lincoln Navigator all sell less than22k units per year. As long as Stellantis is realistic with their projections I think they will be a success. But if they do like FCA did with the Chrysler 200 and discontinue after a couple of years because the sales numbers don't meet their expectations.....Then we are going to have a problem.
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Exact questions I have had.

I won't buy as I'm a Ram guy.

Now if you can get me a US built Ram Power Wagon.

Nevermind.
 

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Now that we have a couple of Grand Cherokee L's on the lot there is no doubt in my mind that it is going to sell well. My concern is that Stellantis will have un realistic projections for sales of these Jeeps. How many Grand Waggoneers do they actually expect to sell per year? While I believe The Grand Wagoneer is a TRUE Cadillac Escalade competitor. I caution the execs at Stellantis to remember that the Escalade has had a 21year head start and when they first came out they were priced in the 50-60k range and the Cadillac name has been around for 100+years and was synonymous with luxury. Will the Grand Wagoneer sell? Absolutely, the question is how many.

Escalade only sells about 25k units per year......BMW X7, Audi8, Range Rover Lexus LX, Lincoln Navigator all sell less than22k units per year. As long as Stellantis is realistic with their projections I think they will be a success. But if they do like FCA did with the Chrysler 200 and discontinue after a couple of years because the sales numbers don't meet their expectations.....Then we are going to have a problem.
View attachment 81598 View attachment 81599
If long usage as a luxury name plate were the criterion this should have been the Chrysler Town & Country, not another Jeep.
 

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I'm sure the profit margin is high for this vehicle and as they keep trying to upscale Jeep I think it'll stay. At sales of 10-15k it should be a big moneymaker for them. And as we all know they just can't upscale Jeep enough.
 

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Chrysler hasn’t reached into the luxury segment in years. Jeep has already been accumulating luxury-SUV converts with the Grand Cherokee.
I don't disagree, that is Daimler-Fiat's fault.

However I was still right, if the long luxury usage were the criterion the choice would be Chrysler Town & Country not any Jeep.

Chrysler's reputation needs to be restored in the US, and if it takes 25 years that is fine. Restoring Chrysler in the US market is a reasonable investment, it once sold very well in the US, unlike Fiat and Alfa which never sold well in the US. Trying to make Fiat and Alfa work in the US is just flushing money down the toilet. There is no reasonable chance for success given past performance of Fiat and Alfa.
 

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I would imagine they’ll be making a decent profit off of each Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer that they sell, so they probably don’t need to sell that many. If they start loading incentives to move them, then obviously that eats into the profitability. Where’s that sweet spot of X number of sales versus Y amount of profit per sale to achieve break even or better?
 

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This and gas prices are climbing again to near $4 a gallon with no end in sight on how high it's going to climb. The strategy of only wanting to go for high profit margin vehicles while killing off more fuel efficient ones May make this a repeat of the Chrysler Aspen all over again. Wrong car at the wrong time. It will be interesting to say the least to see whether this can pull it off The problem is I'm not sure that either Jeep or Chrysler have the brand credibility for this because while the Grand Cherokee has been inching up wards it's always kind of been a little bit that way but the other models like the compass the renegade and the Cherokee undercut that. My opinion the wagoneer should have been sold as a Jeep with the Grand wagoneer being sold under Chrysler as the brands attempt to reestablish itself as luxury only. This would mean the Voyager gets renamed caravan and put back to Dodge where it belongs. They would also need to drop the non-luxurious versions of the 300 and fine-tune the interior. And from there they would need to start putting in some luxurious crossovers and SUVs to Chrysler's lineup.
 

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You are very lucky, in USA. Here in Italy, the same amount of gasoline has this price: $7,62.
Yes, the price of fuel in the EU is artificially high and your roads are not much better.
 

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Yes, the price of fuel in the EU is artificially high and your roads are not much better.
Yes, one you adjust for units of measurement and currency, and remove the taxes - the fact is we all pay pretty much the same for gasoline.
In the US most gasoline tax is earmarked for "transportation" rather than the general fund but even then what counts as "transportation" can include such non-road related items like transportation museums and other pet projects.
 

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This and gas prices are climbing again to near $4 a gallon with no end in sight on how high it's going to climb. The strategy of only wanting to go for high profit margin vehicles while killing off more fuel efficient ones May make this a repeat of the Chrysler Aspen all over again. Wrong car at the wrong time. It will be interesting to say the least to see whether this can pull it off The problem is I'm not sure that either Jeep or Chrysler have the brand credibility for this because while the Grand Cherokee has been inching up wards it's always kind of been a little bit that way but the other models like the compass the renegade and the Cherokee undercut that. My opinion the wagoneer should have been sold as a Jeep with the Grand wagoneer being sold under Chrysler as the brands attempt to reestablish itself as luxury only. This would mean the Voyager gets renamed caravan and put back to Dodge where it belongs. They would also need to drop the non-luxurious versions of the 300 and fine-tune the interior. And from there they would need to start putting in some luxurious crossovers and SUVs to Chrysler's lineup.
I maintain trying to reposition Chrysler back to being a luxury brand would be an absolute fools errand. The luxury realm is hyper competitive and biased towards global luxury brands. Chrysler wouldn’t stand a chance selling something like a Grand Wagoneer after what it’s been selling for the last 20 years.

Jeep has the best chance here. The upcoming hybrid and EV variants will help take out the sting of rising fuel costs.

As far as luxury offerings in general, let’s be clear that it’s Maserati that’s taking the mantle as the true luxury brand. Jeep just happens to have some U.S. specific luxury items in the top trim GC and GW.
 

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I have no problem with Jeep trying to go up against Land Rover with regard to luxury.

But Jeep has forgotten how it got here.....low cost, basic capability and utility that stretches into the higher levels.

A CJ-7 was basic, no-frills fun. You could take it anywhere. But the CJ-7 Laredo with factory air conditioning and other "luxury" items was the same price as a Corvette at the time.

You could get an XJ Cherokee with a basic 4 cylinder and manual transmission. But you could get the top trims with leather, moon roof and luxury items that became the business case for building the Grand Cherokee.

That basic CJ-7 or XJ Cherokee could go anywhere. Capability was designed into the vehicle. Utility was designed into the vehicle. Add better tires or a lift if you want to crawl rocks. Add racks, snorkels if you want to ford water.

I fear this quest for "margins" is alienating their customer base who brought Jeep to the dance.
 

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Yeah but there's no way that a vehicle like the Grand wagoneer would actually sell successfully in Maserati. The Grand wagoneer is too American style luxury SUV to be passed off as a Maserati product. Frankly what is left to do with Chrysler other than move it up market or get rid of it? It's not working as a mainstream brand because we're at stands and has no identity.

While I am well aware that our fuel prices are cheap compared to what they are in the EU, the fact of the matter is when prices get this high these overkill SUVs become unpopular again for logical reasons. I personally am not a fan of SUVs or that every soccer mom and office worker needs a pickup truck. It's their right to buy them if they want them, but frankly I find it frustrating because what this is done is it's ruined pick up trucks and SUVs. Some people such as farmers really need a pickup truck. The result of turning these things into luxury vehicles is they've tarted them up, put in technology that makes them expensive and unreliable, which undermines what a pickup truck was supposed to be to begin with. That purpose is supposed to be a basic work vehicle. An SUV is supposed to be for those that seriously intend to do either off-roading as a sport or for people who live in areas with absolutely horrendous roads. This craze has resulted in the death of sedans and coupes well everybody's fawning over what is in essence a work vehicle and a jacked up station wagon. This is also led the car companies to obsess over making these ridiculous things because of the higher profit margins to where they'll quit making mainstream vehicles because they aren't as profitable and then when the gas prices go back up again then they have a repeat of what happened in 2008 and in the 70s before that. They never learn unfortunately.
 

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I maintain trying to reposition Chrysler back to being a luxury brand would be an absolute fools errand. The luxury realm is hyper competitive and biased towards global luxury brands. Chrysler wouldn’t stand a chance selling something like a Grand Wagoneer after what it’s been selling for the last 20 years.

Jeep has the best chance here. The upcoming hybrid and EV variants will help take out the sting of rising fuel costs.

As far as luxury offerings in general, let’s be clear that it’s Maserati that’s taking the mantle as the true luxury brand. Jeep just happens to have some U.S. specific luxury items in the top trim GC and GW.
The American brands all need to cover a wide range of vehicles. This isn't like Europe with 10 brands to cover every niche and car producing nation with its own version.

The essence of Jeep should be a cheap ($19K) and narrow (66.8" 1699 mm) 4 cylinder AWD SUV with rubber mats and vinyl seats you can wash out with a hose. The country club luxo barge is an extension of the lineup, not the essential nature of Jeep.

Likewise for Dodge, the value model is the core, the high performance model is one trim built on the core.

For Chrysler the essence is the large luxury car, even the Newport was a stretched Dodge Polara, thus providing more luxury. However Chrysler never sold better than when it had midsize and compact models added on the bottom of the line. The Cordoba and Laser/ LeBaron coupes were not stripped economy cars, but rather driver centered cars tuned more for comfort than their Dodge high performance counterparts. Inexpensive but not cheap.

Ram of course needs to be everything from a work truck to a luxury truck.
 
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