Allpar Forums banner
1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Over a year ago, I had to get one of the heads opened in order to replace #3 and #5 rocker arms. Well about 6 months ago, I started having the ticking noise again. I put up with it for a month or so,
I found a video on Youtube that was talking about using Marvel Mystery Oil and although I have added it oil before in small amounts, I had never used as much as a quart. Mostly, I put it in the fuel tank. This time instead of using 6 quarts of synthetic oil, I used 5 quarts and used 1 quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. After about 3 days the noise stopped and has not come back for over 3 months. Every oil change I started to do the same thing. At first I was using 5w30 and the last time to 5w20 but, I think i will go back to 5w30 because the Mystery Oil is real thin. BTW it smells really good also..
 

Attachments

·
Virginia Gentleman
Joined
·
15,446 Posts
I have no comments about MMO, but I'd stay with the viscosity recommended in the owner's manual for your engine. I agree 5w-20 is thin. I have to use it in my '06 Ram 1500 (Hemi). The Hemi has MDS (Multiple Displacement Service - engine runs on 4 cylinders under light load conditions) which requires the thinner oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,341 Posts
Marvel Mystery Oil is an upper cylinder lubricant and a fuel system cleaner when added to the fuel. It is an effective cleaner when added to the oil.

It also counter acts the alcohol fuels. I have noticed an improved fuel mileage when using it in the fuel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,862 Posts
I would not recommend running it all the time, but have used it as a flush for ticking lifters and sludge. I also use it in fresh engine builds as a supplement to "finish" the bores during the first thousand miles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I would not recommend running it all the time, but have used it as a flush for ticking lifters and sludge. I also use it in fresh engine builds as a supplement to "finish" the bores during the first thousand miles.
It only worked for about 6 months to quiet the lifter noise. Now, i am going to have to open up the engine and replace some things to stop the noise. Hopefully, it is not more than the camshafts, timing chains, valve lifters and arm valves thingys
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
Is that tongue in cheek humor, Taxi Girl? After camshafts, timing chains, valve lifters and rocker arms, all that is left are the nuts and bolts. Does MMO also cure baldness?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Is that tongue in cheek humor, Taxi Girl? After camshafts, timing chains, valve lifters and rocker arms, all that is left are the nuts and bolts. Does MMO also cure baldness?
LOL, no I used the MMO for a while first, But, I just got all of the parts in that I ordered from MOPAR camshafts, etc. So now I hope that I can stop the noise for real. Since, the noise came back, I do not praise the MMO any longer.
BTW, a mechanic recently told me that my oil was too thin and that is why I have the lifter noise. I do not think that is true and it makes more sense to me that if the oil is too thick as in 10W40 that the motion of the lifters or valve moving up and down would itself causing sticking and and create a vacuum which would cause that noise. What do you think?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,969 Posts
Your mechanic is correct. Thin oil will cause noise since it is not able to prevent metal to metal contact.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TaxiGirl

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
Hmmm. Hydraulic lifters are pumped up by the oil and a too low viscosity will cause the lifter to bleed too quickly---equals noise. Now, viscosity will lower metal-to metal contact was it builds a thin surface between mating parts. But like a hammer hitting a nail, that type of contact isnot where the oil's viscosity is effective. Sort of like looking at gears. Hypoid and then worm and worm wheels have greater sliding contact forces than involute gear profiles so heavy duty oils are specified (by that I mean HD oils with great shear strength).
In this regard, I have a story. We had a problem with a foreign-designed piece of machinery that was pistol-hot when operating because it had a hypoid gear set (we're talking maybe 1,500 hp). We tried increasing oil flow and adding some circulating holes. No significant change. Finally, I asked a Mobil rep to take a look. He studied the design and returned with a recommendation. Change to their HD series and we would see a 25% reduction in heat. We tried it and BOOM, the gearbox cooled significantly. The oil was designed for the higher shear forces created. Also note that oil does not take away heat but doesn't allow it to be created. Which is what synthetics do in comparison to dinosaur oils (in synthetics, per him, all the molecules are one size).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hmmm. Hydraulic lifters are pumped up by the oil and a too low viscosity will cause the lifter to bleed too quickly---equals noise. Now, viscosity will lower metal-to metal contact was it builds a thin surface between mating parts. But like a hammer hitting a nail, that type of contact isnot where the oil's viscosity is effective. Sort of like looking at gears. Hypoid and then worm and worm wheels have greater sliding contact forces than involute gear profiles so heavy duty oils are specified (by that I mean HD oils with great shear strength).
In this regard, I have a story. We had a problem with a foreign-designed piece of machinery that was pistol-hot when operating because it had a hypoid gear set (we're talking maybe 1,500 hp). We tried increasing oil flow and adding some circulating holes. No significant change. Finally, I asked a Mobil rep to take a look. He studied the design and returned with a recommendation. Change to their HD series and we would see a 25% reduction in heat. We tried it and BOOM, the gearbox cooled significantly. The oil was designed for the higher shear forces created. Also note that oil does not take away heat but doesn't allow it to be created. Which is what synthetics do in comparison to dinosaur oils (in synthetics, per him, all the molecules are one size).
So HD oil meaning 20W-50? That's really thick. So, my theory is off. Not surprised. I sometimes get something in my head and since it makes sense to me, I run with it. Thank you for this useful information. Now, I wonder if maybe for my engine I should put 10w-30 with 318K miles instead of using the 5w-20 or 5w-30? Synthetic of course.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
39,057 Posts
You should use nothing other than the recommended viscosity of oil.
Too thick will cause as much problem as too thin. Thick oil won't flow as fast when cold and may not protect the tighter tolerances on a modern engine as well as the recommended thinner oil.
 

·
Living in RV heaven. You think cars are bad!
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Most synthetic oils will measure the full band of viscosity when tested by an independent laboratory. I think the only reason people like Mobil1 rate them is to meet manufacturers specs. I think Corvette engines specify a 5w-50 and the Mercedes 3.6L diesel wants a 0w-40. It's crazy but synthetic oil is a product that is still way advanced. It can withstand temperatures and pressures that the metal components of the engine can't tolerate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,251 Posts
My anecdotal tests confirm no synthetic has the viscosity of #30 in Engines with excessive main bearing clearance.

I've been randomly mixing oil for years and haven't had any oil related failures.

My old 2001 Sebring 2.7 has run every combination including # 40 and still purrs at 320K

Thanks
Randy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,251 Posts
I think you are possibly comparing apples to oranges, or worn part "ticks" to hydraulic "ticks".

You had some failing rockers that tick when worn out and you replaced them and the tick went away.

Another time you tried an oil supplement and the tick went away, likely due to the hydraulic lash adjuster.

Again you have a tick, more likely due to another rocker failing as is apparently common in some 3.6's

Oil supplements and or different oils can have an effect on hydraulics.

However, worn out rockers as shown in the 3.6 tick videos tick until replaced, oil will not repair the metal.

The ticks mentioned can be very close in sound which can often be confusing.

As you have experienced broken rockers replacing them all would be prudent.

Replacing hydraulic lash adjusters at the same time would also be wise as they are in the same spot.

Replacing rockers/lash adjusters would be my first step.

If the cams aren't scorched there may be no need to go further.

Thanks
Randy







It only worked for about 6 months to quiet the lifter noise. Now, i am going to have to open up the engine and replace some things to stop the noise. Hopefully, it is not more than the camshafts, timing chains, valve lifters and arm valves thingys
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
GLHS60 is correct. No oil is going to correct a worn part or overly loos tolerances. Sort of like saying that some miracle oil will reduce piston slap when the source is too short a skirt or/and too loose a tolerance between piston and bore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
You should use nothing other than the recommended viscosity of oil.
Too thick will cause as much problem as too thin. Thick oil won't flow as fast when cold and may not protect the tighter tolerances on a modern engine as well as the recommended thinner oil.
AMEN to that! Trying to mask a problem doesn't correct it and that same lubricant also affects the other mechanicals in the motor.
 

·
Living in RV heaven. You think cars are bad!
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Hmmm .... in thinking back to the 60's and 70's .... crap like STP temporarily quieted engine noises. It was simply due to a thicker substance creating a higher pressure. All it did was mask the real problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
AMEN to that! Trying to mask a problem doesn't correct it and that same lubricant also affects the other mechanicals in the motor.
Do you think the engine tick noise could very well just be the roller rockers? Even with having 318K miles as in this video?
View: https://youtu.be/iHVWD-SXQiQ This not MINE. JUST A VIDEO I FOUND WHERE HE MAKES IT SOUND SO SIMPLE
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
TaxiGirl, this thread is related to your other thread in which your title asks how long you can run with a broken rocker. And in the other thread, you talk about the familiar ticking sound. Am I missing something that is different between these two threads? The video you just posted at 1:31 is what was covered in the other thread. Or are you now asking if you can get some mileage by using a different lubricant?
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top