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Discussion Starter #1
Ford and GM both have brand spanking new large displacement V8 engines that are stronger and more efficient than Ram's aging 6.4L Hemi. Anybody on the inside heard anything lately about Ram replacing the 6.4? Or maybe at least a major update to it?
 

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Last rumor I heard for a big displacement motor went away after a year, between 2018/2019. It was reportedly a NA 426. That was for a Ram 1500 TR, a cheaper TRX. They probably won't invest into a new V8 family, or even update the current Gen 3's anymore.
 

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First, I assume we're discussing the HD 6.4 truck engine, not the 6.4-HP used in the cars and SUVs. The truck engine really isn't that old, having been introduced only 6 or 7 years ago. This engine was set up for maximum durability, not maximum power. Considering its application, I believe that's very appropriate. In fact, this particular engine belongs - at least as an option - in every single Pursuit and SSV model (a distinct possibility if they decide to retire the 5.7 engine).

Looking objectively at the situation, it truly appears as though it's Ford and GM trying to play catch-up with Dodge. Not unusual, by any means, but that doesn't mean Dodge should stand still. There's always room for improvement, and I do believe they will continue to invest in the 3G family of engines.
 

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I do believe they will continue to invest in the 3G family of engines
What makes you say that? The only "updates" to the Gen 3's have been displacement increases (technically, the Hellcat/Redeye/Demon's have .1 liters more displacement then the original 'high performance' 6.1 lmao) for SRT and one "new" engine for HD's. The 5.7 hasn't seen an update since 2008/2009. I, personally, would've thought they would atleast have done a CGI block for the engine's by now, just to lower the weight. Maybe some commonality in the cylinder heads, like the bigger valves of the SRT's or something.
 

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The money is instead going into hybrid models which will come a year after the DT MCA - ETA is early calendar 2023. Both performance and fuel economy will be greatly increased, at a price. The current 5.7L / 6.4L will be around for a long time, as it allows a market competitive entry price for DS/DT.

You can upgrade in the future, but it will cost you. “This is the FCA”

(Hoping people get my Mandalorian reference)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
First, I assume we're discussing the HD 6.4 truck engine, not the 6.4-HP used in the cars and SUVs. The truck engine really isn't that old, having been introduced only 6 or 7 years ago. This engine was set up for maximum durability, not maximum power. Considering its application, I believe that's very appropriate. In fact, this particular engine belongs - at least as an option - in every single Pursuit and SSV model (a distinct possibility if they decide to retire the 5.7 engine).

Looking objectively at the situation, it truly appears as though it's Ford and GM trying to play catch-up with Dodge. Not unusual, by any means, but that doesn't mean Dodge should stand still. There's always room for improvement, and I do believe they will continue to invest in the 3G family of engines.
Yes, I specifically said Ram. The SRT version is used only in cars. I believe 7 years is a long time in the auto industry. 429 lb/ft in a 7,500 lb. truck doesn't slice the bread anymore. Ford's 7.3L is conservatively rated at 475 lb/ft and makes over 400 lb/ft right off idle. Plus, owners are reporting better mileage compared to Ram's 6.4. I believe that a lot of guys are going back to gas for their trucks because it's a LOT less upfront cost and maintenance, and diesel power systems are becoming so complicated. It would behoove FCA/Stellantis to bring a better gas engine to the game at this point.

My next truck will be my "forever" truck and I'm heavily considering a HD with gas engine because it would do everything I'll ever need going forward and the gas engine will save a ton of money. But as bad as I hate to say it, Ram would be the last truck on my list right now if I had to purchase today. Years ago the 6.4L was impressive. It's old now.
 

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Seven years is a long time but not for engines. Just look at Toyota's ancient V8... SM did believe that V8s would end up as specialty engines for high-buck cars, so the reportedly planned 5.7 upgrade was replaced by a combo of GME T6 and 2.0T, while the 6.4 was likely set on the “it's 1974 and we plan to make 440s for mobile homes but we shouldn't still put any money into updating them" path. Cummins has a pretty high take rate. I suspect a serious truck-tuned GME T6 hybrid setup would work even for Ram 3500s intended for towing.
 

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As a driver of a 2500 6.4, there is nothing wrong with the engine. I would assume it will shortly get upgraded to 450/hp/450tq like what they are putting into the Wrangler.

I would like to see e-torque on the engine.
 

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Last I remember seeing, the JL 392 is rated the original 470/470 the 392 debut with in 2011/2012 for production SRT's.
You are correct 470/470. Wrangler 392 I'm sure they made durability changes to it to put it into the Wrangler. I'm hoping we will see 470/470 in the HDs as well.
 

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The 6.4 is just slightly more powerful than the 5.7 engine, and not by much
Correct, the HD truck 6.4 has similar ratings to the 5.7 (some applications actually show less power).
This is not the HP Car/Durango/Jeep 6.4 engine.

Dr Dave is also correct: 7 years is nuttin'.

The 5.7 was first introduced for 2003, 18 model years ago. The 318, in various A/LA/Magnum forms, went 35 years, the Leaning Tower of Power made it 27 years, and the 360 (which was the starting point for the 3G) went 32 years in LA/Magnum variations.
 

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Fiat's FIRE series is now 38 years old and still in use. Those V8's are still pretty fresh, however a bit of development would not go amiss.
 

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Ford's 7.3 Godzilla is turning out to be a good engine for tuning and modification. If it wasn't a Ford, I would have bought a truck with one.

Ram's 6.4 needs some upgrade to catch up with Ford's and GM's HD Gas engines.

The HP rating is in the middle but it has the lowest torque, and HD trucks need torque.

EngineFuel typePower (hp)Torque (lb.-ft.)
Chevy Silverado HD6.6L V8Gasoline401464
Ford F-Series Super Duty7.3L V8Gasoline430475
GMC Sierra HD6.6L V8Gasoline401464
Ram HD6.4L V8Gasoline410429
 

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Discussion Starter #17
In the time since I posted this several days ago, I've gone back to watch TFL's tow testing of HD trucks on their infamous "Ike Gauntlet" run. In both videos of the Ram 2500 with 6.4L engine, the truck struggles terribly and in fact by the end of the run they are losing speed and falling all the way to 2nd gear on the interstate at roughly 30 MPH. Granted, this is a very tough test (which is the entire point of it) but when it was all said and done the Ram finishes the trip up the hill 2 minutes or more slower than the Ford.

In fact, the first time they did the test, the Ram finished 2 minutes behind the Ford and 1 minute behind the GM with the new 6.6L gas engine.

If you watch these videos it becomes very clear that Ram's 6.4L engine is not even in the same league as Ford's 7.3L or GM's 6.6L engines. It's sad. I want to see Ram bring something modern to the table.
 
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In the time since I posted this several days ago, I've gone back to watch TFL's tow testing of HD trucks on their infamous "Ike Gauntlet" run. In both videos of the Ram 2500 with 6.4L engine, the truck struggles terribly and in fact by the end of the run they are losing speed and falling all the way to 2nd gear on the interstate at roughly 30 MPH. Granted, this is a very tough test (which is the entire point of it) but when it was all said and done the Ram finishes the trip up the hill 2 minutes or more slower than the Ford.

In fact, the first time they did the test, the Ram finished 2 minutes behind the Ford and 1 minute behind the GM with the new 6.6L gas engine.

If you watch these videos it becomes very clear that Ram's 6.4L engine is not even in the same league as Ford's 7.3L or GM's 6.6L engines. It's sad. I want to see Ram bring something modern to the table.
Doesn't help they run 2 more gears with the same, if not slightly more, aggressive gearing, tbh.
 

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In order to make a competitive, if not a copy, of the Ford 7.3, it'd require a whole new engine family. The torque-based Hemi's start at 5.7 and end at the HD Trucks. Every other Hemi is much more about horsepower, and the HD/SRT 392 are already the biggest "street legal" (as in they passes EPA regulations) Hemi of the current Gen 3's. Even my idea of making the 392 a 426 wouldn't make sense, as it won't have the same properties as the Ford 7.3. (massive torque after idle, for example)
Pretty sure this discussion went into "we need a new V8 family".
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Yeah and if the rumors of a fully all-new Ram HD truck for 2023 are true, that would be a wonderful time to release a new V8. Bringing the existing distant 3rd place powertrain into the all-new HD truck would be a major mistake IMO. Ford didn't reach #1 and stay there by resting on their rear ends. I realize that all 3 brands put all their eggs in the diesel engine basket for a long time, but Ford and GM finally woke up and realized that there's money to be made with gas engines in today's market where trucks are SO expensive now and I hope Ram does the same.
 
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