+1plymouth1 said:I hated them until I had one. I no longer need one but I would/will buy another one someday.
Yeah, 80% of the capability of a minivan my rear end. I'd say your estimate of getting halfway there is more accurate. They have half the function, cost more comparably equiped. There is only one single thing they hold over the Chrysler minivan, and that is awd. Outside of that, is it all image. I would go on a rant, but I won't bother.MoparNorm said:Can the Enclave carry plywood in the morning, 6 adults to dinner in th evening all while getting near 30 mpg?
The beauty of the minivan is versatility.
IMO, most crossovers do nothing well, they are at best getting halfway there in cargo, passenger and versatility.
However some folks will go way out of their way to avoid some silly stigma.
When I'm inside of a vehicle, I can't see the outside of the vehicle and the color, shape, or stigma matters little, as long as it's comfortable, has the driving feel I want, the creature comforts I like and the NVH I expect.
Which is one of the reasons I traded the Journey for the Van. So far we love it, stigma? Don't care! Also mpg is better then our Journey was.Sellers said:After looking, the minivan offers a heck of a lot of car for the price. It has more space and same efficiency as the Journey and the same price. Similar for the equinox, explorer, etc.
Silly stigma = your opinion. To the buying public - which is all that matters in the long run - it's quite real. It's disingenuous to dismiss it in favor of a minivan's capability, as most people don't need space for 6 or 7 all the time. Besides, it's irrelevant how capable any car is if you can't get the potential owner to even try it. For reference, see Fiat 500.MoparNorm said:Can the Enclave carry plywood in the morning, 6 adults to dinner in th evening all while getting near 30 mpg?
The beauty of the minivan is versatility.
IMO, most crossovers do nothing well, they are at best getting halfway there in cargo, passenger and versatility.
However some folks will go way out of their way to avoid some silly stigma.
When I'm inside of a vehicle, I can't see the outside of the vehicle and the color, shape, or stigma matters little, as long as it's comfortable, has the driving feel I want, the creature comforts I like and the NVH I expect.
Yes which is why I stated it was my opinion. The word stigma was yours, as is the opinion you stated. It may be wrong, it may be right, but it's no more relevant than anyone else's.abgwin said:Silly stigma = your opinion. To the buying public - which is all that matters in the long run - it's quite real. It's disingenuous to dismiss it in favor of a minivan's capability, as most people don't need space for 6 or 7 all the time. Besides, it's irrelevant how capable any car is if you can't get the potential owner to even try it. For reference, see Fiat 500.
The target audience for the Enclave has no interest in loading a full sheet of plywood.
??? Almost 40 mpg from a van that is over 1,000 lbs heavier than my Daytona, bigger motor, more people and luggage, and driving in the mountains at up to 20 mph faster than the speed limit that I drive here? I'm skeptical to say the least. What is the highway EPA number?MoparNorm said:Last Summer we took a 5,890 mile trip across the Western US, to MN and back across the Northwest to the coast before heading back down to SoCal.
One of our vehicles was a brand new rented Town & Country. It carried 5 people and their luggage plus the obligatory tourist crap we picked up along the way.
I started posting the trip on Facebook and by the end I had hundreds of followers who nearly all marveled at the mpg the van was getting, nearly 40 mpg average. The trip took us up to over 12,000 ' elevation in Colorado, at speeds of 85 in Nebraska and Iowa and in the stop and go driving of Omaha and Saint Paul. The backroads of Yellowstone and Aspen.
I was filing up my Wrangler every 300 miles or so, the T&C at every 650-700 miles. One stretch was from Barstow CA to Kearney Nebraska, 1340 miles, the T&C filled up once. It was so ridiculous that I began marking the tires to make sure my brother in law wasn't sneaking out at night and filling up the tank.
25 highway, according to EPA website http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/31462.shtmlBob Lincoln said:??? Almost 40 mpg from a van that is over 1,000 lbs heavier than my Daytona, bigger motor, more people and luggage, and driving in the mountains at up to 20 mph faster than the speed limit that I drive here? I'm skeptical to say the least. What is the highway EPA number?
I was driving our 2007 Caravan on the expressway a couple of days ago and reset the MPG meter on the trip computer while driving. It was indicating about 37 mpg for a while, but of course that was without any acceleration up to speed. Once I had to accelerate and decelerate MPG dropped a lot. In expressway-only driving at the speed limit, about 25 mpg is usual for my Caravan.abgwin said:25 highway, according to EPA website http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/31462.shtml
Of course, mileage varies with the driver, but with a rental T&C, 5 to 6 adults, my highway mileage was about 18, though plenty of stop and go during that week.
If you have only one child, yes, you may not *need* a minivan. Even a sedan or crossover will suffice for those with no more than two children. More than two children and the practicality of a minivan helps out a lot. We had three children before we finally purchased a minivan ('93 Aerostar). While the Aerostar was not perfect, it was far better in hauling the five of us (and was soon 6 shortly afterwards) than the Acclaim we had at the time. We had the Aerostar for 5-6 years and eventually traded up for a '00 T&C Ltd AWD which we kept for another 5 years before stepping down in size to a Journey. By that time we really only had two children at home ( the older two had moved on), but to this day I still miss the T&C. It's utilitarian uses just can't be beat. Not many vehicles can haul 4x8 plywood from Lowe's and then take the family in comfort to dinner/movies that same night.Bob Lincoln said:My wife had to laugh at all her friends who insisted that when our daughter was born, we would *need* a minivan. We only have one child, and we had a Camry. Everything we needed - stroller, car seat, changing bag, backpack, toys - all fit easily not only into the Camry, but my Daytona. The Camry even held 4 adults plus my daughter. We would have taken a 10 mpg hit by getting a minivan. Not for everyone.
And for hauling, we have my Dakota, which, with the club cab, held my daughter and all of her needs, plus a bed full of suitcases and gifts - used the truck to go to FL and back to see my in-laws. It also serves our occasional hauling needs.