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That would mean manufacturing as well as most r&d development almost entirely IN china....to stand any sort of chance in a VERY competitive market whose easy money boom years for foreign firms are long over.

Still: would seem essential for Chrysler brand in terms of sustainable financial viability.

But then: who is ready for Chrysler as 'America's Import....'(the tag line from the bob dylan advert for the c 200).... FROM china?!
Still China is essential for Chrysler if only for reduced ev techy r&d engineering and supply chain sourcing etc, given the sheer scale of bev and digital techy stuff there (assuming that any new chryslers will emphasize such.) Also good scope for cost and riak sharing with foxconn say or chinese jv partner or say samsung or...tesla china? Apple in china? Etc
China is essential for Chrysler? Um, no.
I mean China is one of the largest automobile markets in the world, so why wouldn’t it be?
China and the US are the two markets in the world that can sustain a single brand by themselves (please no nonsense about the EU being a single market). Stellantis needs Chrysler in China, Chrysler does not have to be in China (or Europe) to be sustainable.
 

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That would mean manufacturing as well as most r&d development almost entirely IN china....to stand any sort of chance in a VERY competitive market whose easy money boom years for foreign firms are long over.

Still: would seem essential for Chrysler brand in terms of sustainable financial viability.

But then: who is ready for Chrysler as 'America's Import....'(the tag line from the bob dylan advert for the c 200).... FROM china?!
There's probably enough buyers that wouldn't care. People buy the Buick Envision.
 

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There's probably enough buyers that wouldn't care. People buy the Buick Envision.
Yes, China is becoming an auto exporter, not importer.

Manufacturers should be preparing to compete with Chinese companies in their home markets instead of trying to penetrate the controlled and political Chinese market.
 

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China is important not just as a target market for manufacture and sales. China enables much cheaper product development, validations, a rich and competitive supply chain esp for bev and other techy stuff and software. Going to china also enables therefore cost competitiveness for brands like chrysler that for now have little pricing power a priori in usa market. Not for nothing is the import content of hyundais toyotas and say hondas or nissans etc assembled in usa for usa consumer so high. Can chrysler compete cost wise if china andor europe is not in the financial costing etc mix? With high 'domestic' content of parts, elevated development costs and usa or canada costs of manufacture, like jeep or ram or it seems the dodge brand can? Maybe. Or not?
 

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The parallels with Buick are uncanny for Chrysler, henceforth. Partly shared with european brands/manufacture/models/sourcing etc (exGM opel...to lancia) and partly via China. Especially if focussed on BEV and connected tech etc.
 

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At this point any company that helps China strengthen its supply chain for electrification is cutting its own throat in the long run.

Supply chains for electrification needs to created in domestic markets or China will come and destroy domestic manufacturers.

That is what PSA, now Stellantis, set out to do....with plants in Germany, France, Italy and Canada. To get ahead technologically and reduce electrification costs and strengthen supply chains before cheap Chinese imports arrive into EMEA and North America and undercut the domestic manufacturers at their own game.
 

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China is important not just as a target market for manufacture and sales. China enables much cheaper product development, validations, a rich and competitive supply chain esp for bev and other techy stuff and software. Going to china also enables therefore cost competitiveness for brands like chrysler that for now have little pricing power a priori in usa market. Not for nothing is the import content of hyundais toyotas and say hondas or nissans etc assembled in usa for usa consumer so high. Can chrysler compete cost wise if china andor europe is not in the financial costing etc mix? With high 'domestic' content of parts, elevated development costs and usa or canada costs of manufacture, like jeep or ram or it seems the dodge brand can? Maybe. Or not?
Obviously global platform sharing in most market segments is necessary for economies of scale. Models built on those platforms in China or the US/Canada do not necessarily have to be shared outside those markets. In fact tailoring to those markets which make up 50% of the world market can have advantages compared to companies that sell global models.

Aside from Maserati, Jeep and Opel, Stellantis really doesn't have brands with global appeal. Even Jeep sales outside North America are very small, and Opel is confined to Europe. Fiat and Alfa have virtually no appeal in North America. US and Chinese consumers have the same brand preferences, except US consumers don't want Chinese brands. What they want is Asian, German and US brands. The US brands besides Jeep and the European brands besides Opel and Maserati should be seen as half the world brands. Subcompact, Compact and Midsize SUVs and cars need to share platforms and components under the skin worldwide, they should not share sheet metal.


Best selling segments in the US and what Stellantis sells in them.

First half of 2021
Subcompact SUV 665.036 (#10 Renegade, a moderate performer, #29 500X an abysmal performer)
Compact cars 745.330 (Not present)
Midsize cars 765.825 (#25 Giulia an abysmal performer)
Large pickups 1.166.475 (#2 Ram a top performer)
Midsize SUV 1.614.971 (#2 Wrangler a top performer, #4 Grand Cherokee a top performer, #16 Durango a poor performer)
Compact SUV 1.966.581 (#11 Cherokee a moderate performer, #17 Compass a poor performer, #35 Stelvio an abysmal performer)

What Chrysler and Dodge should be selling in them:


Subcompact SUV = PT Cruiser / Raider People in this segment don't want real off road performance. HR-V is a wagon, Crosstrek is a jacked up Impreza. Renegade/500X were heavy for no reason.

Compact Cars = Daytona/Laser/Shadow/LeBaron GTC The people in this segment are here for 2 reasons. Low price and low center of gravity. Don't bother with high roofs here, send those people over to look at the PT Cruiser and Raider. 50"-53" is fine here.

Midsize Cars = LeBaron GTS / Stealth (Mitsubishi got the Lancer name) See compact car above.

Midsize SUV FWD/AWD vehicles are half the segment. 3 row Journey / Durango / T&C

Compact SUV FWD/AWD vehicles are over 90% of the segment. 2 row Aspen / Nitro
 

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Well, you all talk like Chrysler is dead already, I call B.S.
Chrysler's problem is lack of investment, pure and simple. 15 years ago Chrysler was outselling Dodge as a brand, lots of product, variety, and style. No offense to you non-North Americans here, but you don't really seem to understand America's attachment to Nameplates and brands. For example, look how long Jeep survived producing VERY questionable product, and with the right investment has become the jewel in the crown for ex-Chrysler/FCA. The simple fact that so few of us here have advocated for so long to save Chrysler(brand), should tell you a little about how N/A's feel about their vehicles. The rest of the world has never had the love of vehicles engendered in N/A, so you don't really understand the depth of our passion. Blithely assuming the loss of Chrysler will mean nothing to the company or shipping it lock stock and barrel to China or wherever wouldn't affect our feelings or buying decisions is short sighted, and shows me a lack of perception about the automobile in North America. Decisions made regarding the future of this Iconic brand need to be made by someone who understands North American tastes and attitudes toward cars. I'm not really sure who is left that can provide that insight or intelligence for Chrysler.
And guess what, I know all about margin and profitability, blah, blah, blah, a good Brand manager will design a vehicle that sells well, represents the Brand and provides a healthy profit to the company, otherwise they aren't good. With the current choice of hardware and software available from the new Parent, the only reason Chrysler can't be revived to it's former glory, is incompetence or lack of will.
 

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Yes. Except that the financial case for andor against new Chrysler models is full of pretty thorny and weedy devilish details. I.e., Risk.

.... given the enfeeblement of the Chrysler brand over many a year, preDaimler, preFca, fca and currently. Wherever the merely moralistic Blame(s) may lie. Speaking financially ONLY, that is.
 

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They can do an incremental new fwd alfa or lancia or fiat at lowered costs and risks in europe given post merger scale economies, even if say a new Lancia Delta or Alfa Giullietta is europe only or even Italy only (lancia.)

Chrysler though will do larger volumes at relatively high costs and prices: i.e., risks are much greater, investment outlays higher too. Etc
 

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....which is why new Chryslers shared with China market and with Lancia (again) andor Peugeot etc, including manufacture in china andor europe(?), may really help the financial 'cause'.
 

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Well, you all talk like Chrysler is dead already, I call B.S.
Chrysler's problem is lack of investment, pure and simple. 15 years ago Chrysler was outselling Dodge as a brand, lots of product, variety, and style. No offense to you non-North Americans here, but you don't really seem to understand America's attachment to Nameplates and brands. For example, look how long Jeep survived producing VERY questionable product, and with the right investment has become the jewel in the crown for ex-Chrysler/FCA. The simple fact that so few of us here have advocated for so long to save Chrysler(brand), should tell you a little about how N/A's feel about their vehicles. The rest of the world has never had the love of vehicles engendered in N/A, so you don't really understand the depth of our passion. Blithely assuming the loss of Chrysler will mean nothing to the company or shipping it lock stock and barrel to China or wherever wouldn't affect our feelings or buying decisions is short sighted, and shows me a lack of perception about the automobile in North America. Decisions made regarding the future of this Iconic brand need to be made by someone who understands North American tastes and attitudes toward cars. I'm not really sure who is left that can provide that insight or intelligence for Chrysler.
And guess what, I know all about margin and profitability, blah, blah, blah, a good Brand manager will design a vehicle that sells well, represents the Brand and provides a healthy profit to the company, otherwise they aren't good. With the current choice of hardware and software available from the new Parent, the only reason Chrysler can't be revived to it's former glory, is incompetence or lack of will.
They seem to understand it quite well when it comes to Alfa and Fiat. They just don't understand it for Chrysler and Dodge because they are ignorant of the strength and depth of the Chrysler and Dodge lineups in the '80s and '90s.
 

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They seem to understand it quite well when it comes to Alfa and Fiat. They just don't understand it for Chrysler and Dodge because they are ignorant of the strength and depth of the Chrysler and Dodge lineups in the '80s and '90s.
Well, you all talk like Chrysler is dead already, I call B.S.
Chrysler's problem is lack of investment, pure and simple. 15 years ago Chrysler was outselling Dodge as a brand, lots of product, variety, and style. No offense to you non-North Americans here, but you don't really seem to understand America's attachment to Nameplates and brands. For example, look how long Jeep survived producing VERY questionable product, and with the right investment has become the jewel in the crown for ex-Chrysler/FCA. The simple fact that so few of us here have advocated for so long to save Chrysler(brand), should tell you a little about how N/A's feel about their vehicles. The rest of the world has never had the love of vehicles engendered in N/A, so you don't really understand the depth of our passion. Blithely assuming the loss of Chrysler will mean nothing to the company or shipping it lock stock and barrel to China or wherever wouldn't affect our feelings or buying decisions is short sighted, and shows me a lack of perception about the automobile in North America. Decisions made regarding the future of this Iconic brand need to be made by someone who understands North American tastes and attitudes toward cars. I'm not really sure who is left that can provide that insight or intelligence for Chrysler.
And guess what, I know all about margin and profitability, blah, blah, blah, a good Brand manager will design a vehicle that sells well, represents the Brand and provides a healthy profit to the company, otherwise they aren't good. With the current choice of hardware and software available from the new Parent, the only reason Chrysler can't be revived to it's former glory, is incompetence or lack of will.
There wasn’t enough passion to keep Chrysler from becoming an old sedan and a minivan.
 

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There wasn’t enough passion to keep Chrysler from becoming an old sedan and a minivan.
That's what I expect when the passion was expected from Italy for two American car brands. Hard to be passionate about something you are being willfully ignorant about.
 

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That only the two remain suggests American car buyers aren’t so much attached to the Chrysler brand.
You are 100% wrong.

It is the intentional starvation of the brand that caused it to only have two models, not the market. It is incompetent management that has proven it knows nothing about brand management. It could not launch Fiat and Alfa successfully in North America. It has failed Maserati. It shrank Dodge to only 3 vehicles and put it in a niche that is not sustainable. Jeep has been diluted, damaging the brand.
 

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You are 100% wrong.

It is the intentional starvation of the brand that caused it to only have two models, not the market. It is incompetent management that has proven it knows nothing about brand management. It could not launch Fiat and Alfa successfully in North America. It has failed Maserati. It shrank Dodge to only 3 vehicles and put it in a niche that is not sustainable. Jeep has been diluted, damaging the brand.
100%? Geesh.
Chrysler lost. Not enough people cared about the brand to buy what they offered because it wasn’t as desirable as the competition.
 

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100%? Geesh.
Chrysler lost. Not enough people cared about the brand to buy what they offered because it wasn’t as desirable as the competition.
You can sugar coat it all you want. This was intentional. Management took their toys and went home after the 200 mess. I don't include the Pacifica because it was already in the pipeline. Management has even messed the sacred minivan up as well. Incompetence plain and simple.
 

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A factor to consider here is that people who are say, about 30 years old and younger generally don't have the passion for cars that many older people do. They have grown up in an era of non-distinctive, bland styling and colors, where even the advertising, what little there is, does not engender the passion and excitement that existed 45-50 years ago. They see cars as appliances, and evaluate their purchases accordingly. Gadgets/electronics are generic, and they will buy according to price and availability, with some consideration to utility. It's not just Chrysler, there is little brand attachment other than what is associated with reliability and cost of ownership.
 
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