[bigbassmann]

Last week I asked how to go about getting the dwell setting done on the '67 Dart with the 225 slant 6. You guys were quick to answer so today my friend and I pulled the distibutor and got the points gap set, installed the distibutor, hooked up the dwell meter and fired up the engine. It ran great and the dwell was right about 41 so we thought all was well. Our next step was going to check the timing when all of a sudden the engine started running really rough and then died. It only ran for about a minute total and then never would crank and run long enough or smooth enough to check the timing that much but what little we did see it looked to be out about 5 degrees retarded so we tried rotating the distributor a little at a time but never could get the engine to run right. Pulled the distributor again and rechecked the points gap and it had somehow closed up too much so we reset the gap within spec and tried again. Once again the engine started and ran smooth for about 30 seconds, I mean it really purred like a kitten at idle and then suddenly started running rough again and stalled out. We tried several more attempts at advancing the timing and it seemed to want to run but we were out of adjustment so we pulled the distributor again and rotated the hold down a bit to gain more adjustment and we went at it again. Same story, the engine would start and run smooth for about 30 seconds or so and then run rough and stall out. We went through this scenario of pulling the distributor, checking points gap (which was still fine), trying the plate moving deal for timing (finally putting it back to our original scribe mark when we could no longer get it to start at all) and nothing ever helped. Same thing each time, it would start and run smooth for a short period and then mess up. After the initial smooth run and stall the engine never would start and run good again until it sat for awhile. If we kept trying to start it, it would either start and run very poorly or just not start at all, almost like it was out of time but if that were the case it would not have started and ran so smooth to begin with. Correct?

Now I am thinking that the problem may be in the fuel delivery, possibly with the carb itself or maybe just old gas. My reasoning is that my buddy never was able to put any throttle to it at all or it would stall out and this was the reason he was changing the points in the first place. He said it would start fine but would want to stall out when first taking off but would smooth out and run fine once it got going so he thought perhaps the points were in need of being changed. The car hasn't been driven but a couple of times in the last year or so and on very short runs at that, it mostly just sits under the carport. We did find and repair a bad section of fuel hose that was split and leaking where it connected at the fuel pump and thought perhaps that was the problem but that didn't help. Also, the gas didn't have the common stale smell to it but that may not be much of a guide to go by as far as bad fuel is concerned, I just don't know.

Any thoughts on what the culprit may be and what we need to check next? Al says he wants to get the old girl running again so he can start driving her around more often. We both spent a lot of time doing body work and rust repairs on this car a few years ago and I painted it for him. Turned out pretty nice (not perfect by any means) and it is a shame it just sits in the yard most of the time.

 

[saltydog]

Sounds like the carb is bad or needs to be rebuilt.

 

[bigbassmann]

That's my thinking too Jaime. I told Al that it just seemed to me that perhaps the carb was the problem since we know the dwell is correct and it starts and runs so smooth for a short time and then starts acting up. If it sits for a little while it will start and run good again but only briefly. I think he is planning to get a rebuild kit.

 

[CHRYNY]

In addition to the carb/fuel/fuel delivery, also check out the vacuum advance on the distributor to make sure it is working and does not have a ruptured diaphram, the vacuum pulloff for the choke, the choke, and choke adjustment in general.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

If the choke pulloff were misadjusted, it would not run well for 30 seconds and then stall - it would run rough and stall right away.

I'm thinking that either the float is off, or more likely, the needle and seat are stuck open, allowing too much fuel in. It might take 30 seconds for it to pump enough fuel to flood it out. A carb rebuild would take care of that problem.

 

[CHRYNY]

After it stalls out, with the engine not running and power turned off when you pump the accelerator pedal can you see normal fuel spray in the barrel of the carb? Or is it dry? Any black smoke before it shuts down? Also, you could try spraying some carb cleaner into the needle/seat inlet to see if it frees up the needle assuming it is stuck open. Also, is rubber fuel line ok by fuel outlet of fuel tank?

 

[bigbassmann]

After it stalls out, with the engine not running and power turned off when you pump the accelerator pedal can you see normal fuel spray in the barrel of the carb? Or is it dry? Any black smoke before it shuts down? Also, you could try spraying some carb cleaner into the needle/seat inlet to see if it frees up the needle assuming it is stuck open. Also, is rubber fuel line ok by fuel outlet of fuel tank?

Not sure about any of this and won't be able to get back to it at least until this weekend because of Al's work schedule. I can say that I don't recall any black smoke before the engine shut down but then again my focus was in the engine bay trying to adjust the position of the distributor in the hope that the timing was the culprit and Al was inside the car. He is going to get a carb rebuild kit for sure since we have no idea if the carb has ever been worked on and if so when it was done. I will make a list of the things you asked about (my memory isn't what it used to be so I don't want to forget anything ) so we can check things out. Thanks for the replies. You guys are great.

 

[CHRYNY]

One other item. If it turns out that you float is bad and needs to be replaced, you have to buy that seperately - it does not typically come in a carb rebuild kit.

 

[chuzz]

Now I KNOW that you're all going to think this is a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Are you sure you're setting the points corretly? The distributor shaft has flat spots and high spots on it. Kind of like a large nut. The points have to be set at the correct gap when they're on one of the high points, not one of the flat spots. I'm sure you guys have set them correctly, but I have to ask anyway. It's just the way I am. They call this point "high cam" or used to back in the 70's when I was a kid and my dads cars all had point style distributors.

 

[chuzz]

Could it possibly be a ballast resistor going bad? I don't know, I'm just asking.

 

[bigbassmann]

We still haven't had time to get back to this yet, just too many irons in the fire I suppose.

To answer your question Chuzz, yes, we set the points on the "high cam" point. That isn't a stupid question either as a lot of the young guys now days wouldn't even know what you are talking about. My buddy, Al, that owns this car wanted to get a dwell meter a few weeks ago so he asked his son, who works at Auto Zone, if they sold them. His reply was "What is that"? :facepalm: