[JKU12]

Just wait. If these High Altitudes sell in any decent numbers, those too will be coming.

Seems like a huge assumption to make and contrary to the trend of Wrangler and Jeep as a whole.

 

[aldo90731]

Seems like a huge assumption to make and contrary to the trend of Wrangler and Jeep as a whole.

How do you figure? Because of Mojave? "Recon"...?

Thing is, if FCA truly understood branding it would know that Mojave alone will provide more halo and generate more interest --and sales-- than High Altitude, or any other of the two dozen sticker editions Jeep has issued in the past few months.

As it sits right now, Jeep seems to be throwing the pasta --no pun intended-- at the wall to see what sticks. Problem is, when sales do start edging up, they won't be able to tell what worked and what didn't.

 

[aldo90731]

This is what the Jeep Wrangler builder page looks like right now. This is ridiculous! And it doesn't even show High Altitude yet.

When you allow for 2 vs 4 doors, soft vs hardtop, manual vs automatic transmission, 4-cyl, V6 or Diesel, paint color, etc., etc., etc., the possible permutations are literally in the millions. Seriously...? This is product proliferation run amok.

No wonder Wrangler prices keep going through the roof.

For reference, Toyota sells 240,000 Tacomas/year with six trim levels.

 

[FreeLantz]

Yeah. Way too many models right now, and the price difference between some only a couple hundred bucks!? They could stand to do away with half of those. On the other hand limited production, wild and interesting colors DO generate interest and anticipation among Jeep fans. You don't need to create a whole new "model" to introduce a color or a new wheel style. FCA for some reason thinks otherwise.

 

[aldo90731]

Yeah. Way too many models right now, and the price difference between some only a couple hundred bucks!? They could stand to do away with half of those. On the other hand limited production, wild and interesting colors DO generate interest and anticipation among Jeep fans. You don't need to create a whole new "model" to introduce a color or a new wheel style. FCA for some reason thinks otherwise.

Indeed.

Mark my words: Mojave and "Desert Rated" will prove the biggest deal since the introduction of Rubicon in 2005, and 4-door Wrangler in 2006. Everything else is just noise.

 

[DarkSky]

FWIW, North Edition is just a combination of packages on a Sahara at a discount. A lot of these could easily just be considered packages on top of Sport, Sport S, Sahara, and Rubicon instead of being listed separately.

I suspect they are just making them look like separate trim levels to increase awareness. Would be the same as if Dodge added SXT Blacktop, SXT Plus, GT Blacktop, GT Plus, R/T Blacktop, R/T Plus, and Scat Pack Plus as "trim levels." Instead, they consolidated their build & price tool to make the Plus and Daytona/TA cars appear as packages instead of standalone trim levels.

 

[Mr. Fusion]

I was all set to hate this...and then I saw the pictures. Come on guys, this looks amazing. The wheels really work for what they're going for. I can totally see this thing reaching a Land Rover or even G-Wagen audience, while costing tens of thousands of dollars less.

And it's all Jeep. They didn't do anything to the capability other than change the wheel & tire package. If what people want is a luxo-ute that happens to be a Wrangler, then I can't blame Jeep for taking their money.

 

[JKU12]

How do you figure? Because of Mojave? "Recon"...?

Thing is, if FCA truly understood branding it would know that Mojave alone will provide more halo and generate more interest --and sales-- than High Altitude, or any other of the two dozen sticker editions Jeep has issued in the past few months.

As it sits right now, Jeep seems to be throwing the pasta --no pun intended-- at the wall to see what sticks. Problem is, when sales do start edging up, they won't be able to tell what worked and what didn't.

I'm not sure how "sticker" packages have anything to do with the conversation we were having, where you were saying have a 20 inch tire on an otherwise not changed Wrangler would result in diluting the brand down a severe slippery slope to things like significant less capability.

My point was nothing that Jeep has done in general has decreased capability across the Wrangler or Jeep line in many many years. By all means, the only thing that has happened is capability has increased. Wrangler is the most capable it's ever been. Gladiator brings a 2nd solid axle model. Which is crazy considering it wasn't long ago we were fearing there might be zero! Trailhawks across the board. I'm not arguing whether or not Trailhawks are capable enough.... my point being though that the last decade has seen nothing but improvement in capability across the Jeep line. So I fail to see how a 20 inch tire on Wrangler on one trim of many is going to reverse that trend and destroy the Wrangler nameplate.

 

[JKU12]

Indeed.

Mark my words: Mojave and "Desert Rated" will prove the biggest deal since the introduction of Rubicon in 2005, and 4-door Wrangler in 2006. Everything else is just noise.

This I can totally agree with you. Mojave is a big f'n deal! Mojave will be the next Rubicon. What a great move... 4 door Wrangler... Gladiator, Rubicon, Mojave... these things are the big changes. Everything else are fun stickers or "enhanced stickers". Which people enjoy, but these are the lasting game changers.

 

[Chase300]

This is what the Jeep Wrangler builder page looks like right now. This is ridiculous! And it doesn't even show High Altitude yet.

When you allow for 2 vs 4 doors, soft vs hardtop, manual vs automatic transmission, 4-cyl, V6 or Diesel, paint color, etc., etc., etc., the possible permutations are literally in the millions. Seriously...? This is product proliferation run amok.

No wonder Wrangler prices keep going through the roof.

For reference, Toyota sells 240,000 Tacomas/year with six trim levels.

Apparently you've never shopped a Porsche 911.
There are 22 different variants to choose from...yes...Twenty-Two.

 

[Zagnut27]

I just don't see the big deal. If the only major difference is the tires/wheels, then those can easily be swapped out for larger ones by the customer or the next owner who purchases the vehicle used. It's not like they would have to swap out suspension parts or do any major retrofitting to get it back to "good".

Sure, if this trend leads to RWD Wranglers again and a short-arm independent suspension...or a car-based FWD platform, then we can all break out the pitchforks and torches. Heck, I'll be first...no wait...mid-pack in line (not first, I'll wait till others go first, I don't want to be by myself).

And it's not like people aren't already doing this to Wranglers already. I've seen quite a few Wranglers over the years with low profile tires on them, so obviously some people like that look. This just gives them the option to purchase directly from the factory like that. We'll see how well they sell.

 

[aldo90731]

FWIW, North Edition is just a combination of packages on a Sahara at a discount. A lot of these could easily just be considered packages on top of Sport, Sport S, Sahara, and Rubicon instead of being listed separately.

I suspect they are just making them look like separate trim levels to increase awareness. Would be the same as if Dodge added SXT Blacktop, SXT Plus, GT Blacktop, GT Plus, R/T Blacktop, R/T Plus, and Scat Pack Plus as "trim levels." Instead, they consolidated their build & price tool to make the Plus and Daytona/TA cars appear as packages instead of standalone trim levels.

Good point. Still, the bottom line is Jeep should be facilitating consumers’ journey through the shopping process, not making it infinitely complex and burdensome.

If I were one of the hundreds of thousands shoppers looking at Wrangler right now, I wouldn’t even know where to start on that page.

Every day I see prospects go on the Wrangler forums totally overwhelmed, asking fellow members for help because they can’t figure out which one to buy.

And we know what happens when someone asks for an opinion on a public forum...

 

[aldo90731]

Apparently you've never shopped a Porsche 911.
There are 22 different variants to choose from...yes...Twenty-Two.

Sounds like a German company alright.

 

[aldo90731]

Perhaps 3 trim levels wasn’t enough for Wrangler. But 13 (including High Altitude) isn’t the answer, obviously.

Jeep could facilitate navigating through this chaos by stratifying its offerings: grouping some of these models under overarching umbrellas.

For example:

Value Trims:

Sport
Sport S
Sport Altitude
Sport Black and Tan
Willys
Willys Sport​

Luxury and Comfort Editions:

Freedom
Sahara
North
Sahara Altitude
Sahara High Altitude​

Extreme Off-Road Editions:

Rubicon
Rubicon Recon
Mojave (future?)​

Gawd, even that is still a lot of trims!

 

[UN4GTBL]

Perhaps 3 trim levels wasn’t enough for Wrangler. But 13 (including High Altitude) isn’t the answer, obviously.

Jeep could facilitate navigating through this chaos by stratifying its offerings: grouping some of these models under overarching umbrellas.

For example:

Value Trims:

Sport
Sport S
Sport Altitude
Sport Black and Tan
Willys
Willys Sport​

Luxury and Comfort Editions:

Freedom
Sahara
North
Sahara Altitude
Sahara High Altitude​

Extreme Off-Road Editions:

Rubicon
Rubicon Recon
Mojave (future?)​

Gawd, even that is still a lot of trims!

I like that much better.

Just making it simpler would go a long way. Keeping the basic trims that everyone is familiar with and allowing for optional packages could be much more intuitive:

Sport (with available S, Altitude, Freedom, Black & Tan, Willys and Willys Sport packages)
Sahara (with available North, Altitude & High Altitude packages)
Rubicon (with available Recon package)
​

I'm all for customization with vehicles, but most people really don't care, so that's where I think the Honda/Toyota features model works best.

Having said that, the Wrangler ain't no A-to-B commuter car.

 

[DarkSky]

Sport Altitude and Sahara Altitude are somewhat confusing. No other Jeep model has three Altitude models. Sport Altitude should just become "Altitude" and offer optional leather and the 8.4" screen while Sahara Altitude should be replaced with High Altitude.

I actually think the 8.4" screen should be optional equipment on Sport S models. I can live without the body colored fender flares on a Sahara, but I would have to move up the ladder to Sahara to get the 8.4" screen because it's not offered on Sport-based models.

 

[Ruptured Duck]

Jeep is trying to offer up the custom individual look to the new Jeep buyer. What makes a Wrangler special is the ability to build it to ones taste and personality. No one wants their Jeep to look like the guy or gal next to them. Unfortunately I believe they are trying to do this in the wrong way. Rather than all the individual packages just offer up the build sheet and let the customer, or the dealer, build out what they want. A truly one off custom JL/JT off the assembly line just like Porsche. Porsche even promotes that they rarely see two 911's built out the same.

@Zagnut27 I am working on an opportunity that I believe I will enjoy.

 

[aldo90731]

I like that much better.

Just making it simpler would go a long way. Keeping the basic trims that everyone is familiar with and allowing for optional packages could be much more intuitive:

Sport (with available S, Altitude, Freedom, Black & Tan, Willys and Willys Sport packages)
Sahara (with available North, Altitude & High Altitude packages)
Rubicon (with available Recon package)
​

I'm all for customization with vehicles, but most people really don't care, so that's where I think the Honda/Toyota features model works best.

Having said that, the Wrangler ain't no A-to-B commuter car.

Toyota and Honda have option packaging down to a science. Their ability to bundle options into packages people tend to buy together is part of the secret that allows them to pass significant savings to customers.

Where they fail, IMO, is in the lack of colors and powertrain options. For instance, Acura offers only one motor in each model, while Mercedes and BMW offer a range of motors. Worse, Toyota, Honda and Acura “sports” editions are mostly cosmetic: they come with the exact same motor and transmission, and perhaps an extra exhaust tip to extract 10 HP. American and German automakers, meanwhile, truly offer power trains that range from mild to wild.

Having said that, does JL really need both the 3.6 V6 and the 2.0T offered side-by-side? Their specs are virtually identical.

Someone needs to go in there and do some serious analyses of how people order their Jeeps, and bundle options together to start adding value to the buying process, and to buyers’ pockets.

 

[Ruptured Duck]

Just offer all the items you can get on the JPP20. Not everyone will want all the options but having some installed to you Sport would be rather cool.

Mopar’s 2020 vehicle is the Jeep Wrangler JPP 20 (at https://www.allpar.com/news/2020/02/mopars-2020-vehicle-is-the-jeep-wrangler-jpp-20-47379 )

 

[hmk123]

I really liked it that there were like only 2 or 3 options available for my 300M back then. Same for the Magnum SRT8. I feel like all these different packages have been U.S. auto makers' answer to all the different model variations Europe has been offering (sedan, coupe, grand coupe, CUV, CUV sports coupe). But it is one thing if customers order their car. Another when people primarily buy from the lot. Then it will become all about compromise because trying to find the right configuration becomes impossible. And it seems to increase prices.