Allpar Forums banner

WSJ's take on Dodge's reputation

3329 Views 55 Replies 18 Participants Last post by  Erik Latranyi
In the Jan 14 edition of "The Wall St Journal" there is a discussion of all the auto companies whose upcoming electric vehicles will be trying to knock Tesla off it's #1 sales perch. Not that I object (being an almost 50 year member of NHRA) but I found it amusing that the WSJ found that Stellantis is aiming to have a Dodge Charger as one of it's first all-electric US offerings because Dodge is "Known for producing cars used in drag racing", hence will be sacrificing range to "preserve the driving dynamics of a traditional muscle car".
  • Like
Reactions: multimopes
21 - 40 of 56 Posts

· Premium Member
2002 Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4x4 with Cummins. 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Altitude
Joined
·
5,835 Posts
Nick is the keeper of the Mopar faith! The thing I can't figure out but would love to know is how he finds such obscure limited production parts for the restorations.
His brother may provide some of them. He has said many times that some of the parts he's holding in his hands during the show he purchased from his brother. I'm not sure whether he makes the stuff, or he just sells Mopar stuff.
 

· Premium Member
2002 Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4x4 with Cummins. 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Altitude
Joined
·
5,835 Posts
B


Both are examples of products not designed to maximize efficiency, whether phev or bev. The 4xe sells well despite probably being one of the worst phev products based on efficiency only or miles out of the size of the battery pack.

I’m a 4xe owner, not criticizing.
If they would make a GCL 4xe that would have say 50 miles of range, I'd trade mine. 50 miles would get us to work and back, plus a bit of town running without ever starting the gas engine. This is where the bulk of our 15k we have on ours now comes from. Electric rates here in the midsouth are dirt cheap compared to other parts.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
12,399 Posts
Yes.....I certainly am comparing apples to oranges...or...in this case...PHEV's and BEV's.

I think a compelling case could be made that X number of Wrangler 4XE's equaling just ONE Hummer in total battery size.....could be of more benefit environmentally than the single Hummer.

And...I stand by my assertion that the Hummer is the poster child for conspicuous consumption.
But you can say that about a Lamborghini and its parts could be used to build more Dodge Neons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HotCarNut

· Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
If they would make a GCL 4xe that would have say 50 miles of range, I'd trade mine. 50 miles would get us to work and back, plus a bit of town running without ever starting the gas engine. This is where the bulk of our 15k we have on ours now comes from. Electric rates here in the midsouth are dirt cheap compared to other parts.
I would agree. I was hoping they would put a bigger battery pack in the gladiator in the bed to get about 50 miles. I'd be interested if so. Sometimes the 22 miles is too short in the Wrangler. I am a believer in phev products for various reasons. The largest being you can take a phev on roadtrips with little interruption to travel, plus you can make 5-10 phev units (battery size) for every bev unit and get the 20-40 mile range that most people need on a daily basis.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,327 Posts
I would agree. I was hoping they would put a bigger battery pack in the gladiator in the bed to get about 50 miles. I'd be interested if so. Sometimes the 22 miles is too short in the Wrangler. I am a believer in phev products for various reasons. The largest being you can take a phev on roadtrips with little interruption to travel, plus you can make 5-10 phev units (battery size) for every bev unit and get the 20-40 mile range that most people need on a daily basis.
Thanks for adding your voice to my argument for wider availability (and range) for PHEV vehicles over pure BEV....at least for the present. When battery technology advances far enough, the issue can always be revisited.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
View attachment 92664
Well I read WSJ every day and have been to Raceway Park in NJ many times, so there’s one lol! Both the Jeeps I drive have racing stickers from all the races we have been to in the rear side window…
I thought that Dave would pick up on this one but Old Bridge TWP (Raceway Park) has been closed since when 2018- Chargers and 2018 Challengers were brand new. But I get the point that those Wall Streeters didn't have to drive far to get their fun. The same business types were responsible for the tracks demise.....
 

· Registered
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi Limited, 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 Laredo, 2017 Jeep Wrangler
Joined
·
1,330 Posts
Not a rebuttal, but you make me think of the transition to digital watches. The ICE is the mechanical clockwork of the time keeping world. digi clocks are far superior. They have replaced mechanical clocks in just about every facet. Save for enthusiasts, who do enjoy the complications. They are heavier, bulkier, more complex, subject to mechanical failure, and are very expensive to buy and fix. Battery and electric motor solves a lot of problems for a lot of people who just need a car, or need to build said car.
I don’t think ice will be extinct, but I do think it’s obsolete. As long as there is a market for a 3 million dollar wristwatch, there will be a market for the internal combustion engine
while you make good points, the "obsolesce" of the ICE vehicle, is wholly dependent on the infrastructure for charging which is still years off, and does not address, the question what will city/apartment dwellers do? Who don't have driveways and garages? Have you ever been to Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx or Staten Island? Even parts of Manhattan, have cars parked everywhere. When I lived in Brooklyn, everyone on our street had a car, and most were parked right on the street. There are people who have to park on the street all over NYC, just how are these neighborhoods going to transition to full EV? I don't see it being practical, or safe. People who think it is just going to happen like that, have probably never had to deal with using a private car in an urban area.
 

· Registered
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi Limited, 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 Laredo, 2017 Jeep Wrangler
Joined
·
1,330 Posts
I thought that Dave would pick up on this one but Old Bridge TWP (Raceway Park) has been closed since when 2018- Chargers and 2018 Challengers were brand new. But I get the point that those Wall Streeters didn't have to drive far to get their fun. The same business types were responsible for the tracks demise.....
I'm not so sure the Wall Streeters had anything to do with that, it was the age of the family who founded, it and dealing with NIMBYism of neighborhoods that didn't exist in 1965 when the track was built. The run off area wasn't as large as it should have been for safety, and I think the family just got tired of the (locally created) hassles. So it goes quiet, and kids race on the street. That's not an improvement! The same thing happens here on Long Island. Kids race up and down Deer Park Ave all the time. We have two 8,000 foot long runways, at the former Grumman Calverton site, but no dragstrip.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HotCarNut

· Registered
2011 Challenger R/T Classic
Joined
·
1,204 Posts
Regarding Dodge’s reputation..

They’ve done an excellent job of carving out a niche in the V8 performance world. They’ve spent years stuffing V8s everywhere they’ll fit. They have had great success with it, and sales have been pretty awesome. There are kids all over America with Hellcat and TRX posters on their walls. It’s what every automaker dreams of to become a part of heritage. And in 36 months that will all be gone. They are throwing it all away on purpose. The reputation Dodge has today won’t be the reputation they’ve got in 2026.

And I don’t want to hear about how “they have no choice” and “it’s the way the world is going” because those are just excuses. GM has a brand new, first ever, DOHC V8 in all the magazines right now with an $800M investment to build yet another all new V8 in the coming years. Ford is showing off the new 6th Gen Mustang Dark Horse with a high-tech V8 all over YouTube. The competitors’ have made it clear they intend to occupy the space as long as buyers are showing up at dealers, which is the way it should be. Sad sad time to be a Mopar fan.
 

· Premium Member
2002 Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4x4 with Cummins. 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Altitude
Joined
·
5,835 Posts
Regarding Dodge’s reputation..

They’ve done an excellent job of carving out a niche in the V8 performance world. They’ve spent years stuffing V8s everywhere they’ll fit. They have had great success with it, and sales have been pretty awesome. There are kids all over America with Hellcat and TRX posters on their walls. It’s what every automaker dreams of to becoming a part of heritage. And in 36 months that will all be gone. They are throwing it all away on purpose. The reputation Dodge has today won’t be the reputation they’ve got in 2026.

And I don’t want to hear about how “they have no choice” and “it’s the way the world is going” because those are just excuses. GM has a brand new, first ever, DOHC V8 in all the magazines right now with an $800M investment to build yet another all new V8 in the coming years. Ford is showing off the new 6th Gen Mustang Dark Horse with a high-tech V8 all over YouTube. The competitors’ have made it clear they intend to occupy the space as long as buyers are showing up at dealers, which is the way it should be. Sad sad time to be a Mopar fan.
I can't like your post enough. They did the very same thing in 1974. Left what little performance market left to Chevy and Ford. Here we are again. They are way overestimating the value of electrics and the inline six. Big big mistake. The name Hemi alone is worth a mint, now it's time to simply flush it. Disgraceful.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Not a rebuttal, but you make me think of the transition to digital watches. The ICE is the mechanical clockwork of the time keeping world. digi clocks are far superior. They have replaced mechanical clocks in just about every facet. Save for enthusiasts, who do enjoy the complications. They are heavier, bulkier, more complex, subject to mechanical failure, and are very expensive to buy and fix. Battery and electric motor solves a lot of problems for a lot of people who just need a car, or need to build said car.
I don’t think ice will be extinct, but I do think it’s obsolete. As long as there is a market for a 3 million dollar wristwatch, there will be a market for the internal combustion engine
Oh I agree, ICE will go the way of the dinosaur EVENTUALLY. But, we need to have a reliable and for now anyway, an AFFORDABLE alternative and for many, dare I say most of us, BEV's are not affordable....not yet anyway. PHEV more so but they are again a stepping stone. We will get there but I'm 59 and don't believe without some Paradigm shifting event I will see the real end of the ICE.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Regarding Dodge’s reputation..

They’ve done an excellent job of carving out a niche in the V8 performance world. They’ve spent years stuffing V8s everywhere they’ll fit. They have had great success with it, and sales have been pretty awesome. There are kids all over America with Hellcat and TRX posters on their walls. It’s what every automaker dreams of to becoming a part of heritage. And in 36 months that will all be gone. They are throwing it all away on purpose. The reputation Dodge has today won’t be the reputation they’ve got in 2026.

And I don’t want to hear about how “they have no choice” and “it’s the way the world is going” because those are just excuses. GM has a brand new, first ever, DOHC V8 in all the magazines right now with an $800M investment to build yet another all new V8 in the coming years. Ford is showing off the new 6th Gen Mustang Dark Horse with a high-tech V8 all over YouTube. The competitors’ have made it clear they intend to occupy the space as long as buyers are showing up at dealers, which is the way it should be. Sad sad time to be a Mopar fan.
The Italians are not running the show anymore. The French have a seat at the table. It was fun when the Italians stuffed hellcats/other hemi V8s into everything. Remember they still owned Ferrari when the hellcat came out. PSA really does not have that history. It's starting to show.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HotCarNut

· Registered
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi Limited, 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 Laredo, 2017 Jeep Wrangler
Joined
·
1,330 Posts
I'm saying it now, and I hope I'm wrong but all EV for performance Challenger and Charger will kill the brand. Their traditional customers don't want EVs and won't want a twin turbo 6 either. It's not necessary now and is a BAD, very BAD move. Adios Mopar, Blue Oval or Bowtie here I come.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 13 200 3.6

· Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
I'm not so sure the Wall Streeters had anything to do with that, it was the age of the family who founded, it and dealing with NIMBYism of neighborhoods that didn't exist in 1965 when the track was built. The run off area wasn't as large as it should have been for safety, and I think the family just got tired of the (locally created) hassles. So it goes quiet, and kids race on the street. That's not an improvement! The same thing happens here on Long Island. Kids race up and down Deer Park Ave all the time. We have two 8,000 foot long runways, at the former Grumman Calverton site, but no dragstrip.
I remember reading a (maybe not fake) news story that the Napp family originally leased and eventually sold the land involved to Insurance Auto Auctions. The family originally leased space to the Insurance Industry after hurricane Sandy so I can see some truth in this. In either event, the insurance industry and many on Wall Street climb the same greasy, slimy pole ergo the association that was made.

Back on topic and regarding Dodge's reputation, I can see that older people (who may or may not be reading WSJ) with a perpetually fixed opinion that Dodge vehicles only operated well in a straight line which is sheer ignorance of the facts. The A, B and E bodies handled better than most anything out there back in the day. It was the tire manufacturers that couldn't develop a product comparable to the suspension technology. The opinions of those that are currently younger are much less significant for 3 reasons:
1) Everybody is moving away from cars - SUV's for the whole world now, right?
2) For the few that would actually compete with sedans, few people compete in showroom stock racing. The majority are modified way beyond stock nowadays.
3) How a stock vehicle performs matters only to readers of Road and Rash, Motor Trash and Consumer Retorts whose numbers have already dwindled into insignificance.
 

· Premium Member
2002 Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4x4 with Cummins. 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Altitude
Joined
·
5,835 Posts
Apparently, Stellantis competitors here are going in on making conventional and electric vehicles. Stellantis probably can't afford to do both, so the electric Ram steals money away from money making conventional Ram. So now, product updates for the vehicles that actually pay the bills, not halo things will probably will be extended. Making the money makers fall farther behind. If someone out there says this won't happen with real proof, I'm listening. Short list, Ram 1500, Ram HD, Wrangler and Gladiator. You let these slip behind the competition, and it's lights out here in NA. And that's a fact.
 

· Administrator
1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
Joined
·
25,610 Posts
Meanwhile STLA has made it incredibly clear that they intend to continue both BEV and gasoline.

We're seeing thousands and thousands of charging stations added in 2023-24 in preparation for the new cars coming in 2023-2030.

I don't figure this transition will be flawless but that's the way it goes.

And yes, I did set aside my mechanical watch and switched to an all digital Apple Watch around three-four years back, and haven't looked back.
 

· Premium Member
2002 Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4x4 with Cummins. 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Altitude
Joined
·
5,835 Posts
Meanwhile STLA has made it incredibly clear that they intend to continue both BEV and gasoline.

We're seeing thousands and thousands of charging stations added in 2023-24 in preparation for the new cars coming in 2023-2030.

I don't figure this transition will be flawless but that's the way it goes.

And yes, I did set aside my mechanical watch and switched to an all digital Apple Watch around three-four years back, and haven't looked back.
So, you're saying that none of the announced electric vehicles will have any impact on existing products refresh timeline? The only brand it can't impact is Chrysler. They had no new products anyways. Let's see if Ram 1500 gets refreshed for 2024. That would be a mid cycle date. Half way into their previous 10 year cycle. I suppose they'll try and say their upcoming electric model will suffice.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
Oh I agree, ICE will go the way of the dinosaur EVENTUALLY. But, we need to have a reliable and for now anyway, an AFFORDABLE alternative and for many, dare I say most of us, BEV's are not affordable....not yet anyway. PHEV more so but they are again a stepping stone. We will get there but I'm 59 and don't believe without some Paradigm shifting event I will see the real end of the ICE.
I half disagree. Dino fuels will definitely go the way of the dino, but there are a lot of companies out there working on alternative ICE fuels. BEV isn't the only alternative.

You're absolutely right though. The infrastructure isn't anywhere near ready yet for any of the alternatives.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,325 Posts
It is indicative of the lack of real journalists in this country/world. They are uneducated, ill-informed and conduct themselves as advocates instead of as reporters of facts.

This applies outside auto journalists as well. Dave is one of the few that is informed on subjects he writes about. He is a dying breed.
Often, people from 'outside' of the industry have little knowledge of the 'nuances' of an industry like this one. It's kind of like hiring a Paris Couturier to critique sporting equipment! They might have some superficial knowledge, but not enough to make an informed comment/review/judgement! This is why I rarely even bother to read articles by the "experts". Other than Dave!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,981 Posts
While articles like these are pretty shallow, they do give a good insight on how the brand or product is perceived by the generally uninformed public. In this case, the Dodge marketing staff must feeling pretty good about establishing the muscle car image firmly in the publics eye.
 
21 - 40 of 56 Posts
Top