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Discussion Starter #462
I like always to work with real data.
How many are the ecodiesel 3.0 V6 that have problems, how many gasoline V6, how many 2.0 turbo, V8 gasoline, i6 diesel Cummins ... percentage of sales, ...?
Otherwise, it is as usual, casual observations. If my car have a problem and don't complain online does it counts or not?

The so high "quality", at least reading about awards, how is that now have ngine problems, EV battery Kona problems (stop sale for Hyundai Kona in park lots)?
I don't know how many EcoDiesels have problems. But I can tell you the number of EcoDiesel owners posting complaints is many times larger than those complaining about the 3.6 or 2.0.

If we take into account that the number of EcoDiesels sold so far is only a fraction of the number of 3.6 and 2.0 sold to date, then IMO FCA has a problem in the making.
 

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Discussion Starter #463
TFL's saga with their Land Rover Defender continues. They have owned the vehicle 2 weeks, of which they only have been able to use the vehicle 2 days.

They bought the Land Rover to create video content. Turns out the content they are now creating must not make Land Rover very content...

 

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Discussion Starter #465

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Virginia Gentleman
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Meanwhile in a Fiat Panda with electric heated windshield (Euro 245 + taxes option that includes also heated front seats).
Didn't Ford have something similar with the Taurus a while back? They didn't keep it as an option for long.
 

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Didn't Ford have something similar with the Taurus a while back? They didn't keep it as an option for long.
If I remember well was Ford to introduce it, well at least in Europe, but I could be wrong.
Several manufacturers, at least in Europe have this option, that in some northern Europe markets are a standard equipment.
But not all are the same, even inside FCA products there are big differences. For example the one in the Fiat Panda cover almost all the windshield, while the one in a Renegade / 500X (at least was that some time ago) covers only the area of the wipers when they rest.
It is better the ones like in the Panda, is also useful to defog the interior of windshield fronm water condensation.
 

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Didn't Ford have something similar with the Taurus a while back? They didn't keep it as an option for long.
Ford had this for several years, on a few different cars. You could identify them because the windshield had an unusually silvery color compared to the rest of the glass in the cars.

A simple solution that could eliminate the worst of the problem, used on the third gen minivans, was to run a defroster grid across the bottom of the windshield where the wipers rested.
 

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Virginia Gentleman
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A simple solution that could eliminate the worst of the problem, used on the third gen minivans, was to run a defroster grid across the bottom of the windshield where the wipers rested.
The '00 T&C Ltd we had had this feature. Miss it.
 

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My 2016 Durango was annoying as it sent much more air through the passenger side defroster than the driver side.
When I'd remote start it when it sat outside in PA< I'd get in and find a nice clear passenger side and the driver side only clear 1/2 way up.
 

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Wonder what exactly is the problem here? Blend doors not sending enough heat to the windshield? Never had this problem in any of the 3 Jeeps we have...

Modern vehicles are too complicated for their own good...
It looks like from the vents at the base of the windshield arrives most, if not all, to the center parts and not to side ones.
The problem, that was already in the JK, is exacherbated because the big speakers on the sides.

Add the tilting windshield system, that makes it more difficult to install an electric heated windshield.
Tilting windshield, very expensive solution to implement, that I can suppose very few people use in real life.

Some people started to put deflector (some 3D printed) or plug some of central part vents to getair flow on sides.

There is half of right wiper in a cold area and another cold area on left side (the ones of the speakers).
Of the strip of vents only the central portion seems to have a good flow and very few flow on the sides.
Maybe someone can post a better image.

 

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So did we lose a huge amount of Jeep talent and have people who don't know Jeeps designing and testing them?

The defroster thing should have caught during development and cold weather testing. Having a Jeep that functions poorly in a cold, wintry environment is a big problem. I'm glad I moved back south! A proper defroster shouldn't be limited to a JL/JT either. Poor OEM headlights and poor defrosters will probably get some regulatory body's attention down the line (and not just for Jeep, for many brands from many companies).
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The steering problems that started with JL the JT and took years to fix? I'm wondering if it was explained away as a "Jeep thing" by people who just weren't familiar with Wranglers and how they drove. The number of times "it's a Jeep thing" was mentioned to JL and JT buyers can only be explained by that phrase coming from above. Until enough JK owners forced the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #477
This just popped up today. It’s worth reading.

RANT - Over Jeep, their Dealers and FIAT

I just need to rant, so there's a lot below. My JL is my 6th Wrangler, and may very well be my last, unless I go back to YJs and TJs. The last 7 weeks have been a huge PITA, and everyone from my Dealer to FIAT has pissed me off beyond belief. I've been so patient, but I am over it. If you care to humor me, my story is below.

Seven weeks ago, I was driving and got a check engine light, as well as a "stop safely, vehicle will shut off soon" message along with CEL and ESC lights. I was a mile from home, so I got there, parked it and had it towed to the dealer where I bought it, Newnan CDJR in Newnan, GA. (8/12). It is outside my covered area, and I pay an extra $50 to get it there since i assume I will be treated ok, since I bought it there and have been there for service before. Hah.

Over the next 2 weeks, I received no to very little updates about any progress or what was being done. I had a case with @JeepCares opened from day 1. I honestly don't know what their purpose is. They can't seem to make dealers do anything. Maybe they can expedite parts, but that's it.

Anyway, those 2 weeks go by, they call me and tell me they replaced both batteries, come pick it up. I guess it takes a week per battery, whatever. I pay to Uber there ($50), and pick it up. I stop for gas a mile down the road, and when I am pulling out, CEL light, ESC light and Autopark Disengaged messages come on. I immediately take it back. Once I park it at the dealer, it won't start. Shifter flashes. Same lights and warnings. Also, while waiting for them to figure out their next move, I noticed they had scratched up my front fender in the previous 2 weeks it was there. They assure me they'll fix it. Since I am with it this time, I also get a loaner vehicle. (8/28). Side note: I did talk them into doing the steering TSB while it was up there, so at least that did get done fairly simply. I did check, too, and the steering box is the new part number and is black, so I know they did it.

Two more weeks go by. During this time, it's more of the same - JeepCares can't get in touch with my service advisor for actual updates. I get transferred until it rings too much and I get sent to a voicemail box when I call, and can't get in touch with anyone who has a clue. I have no idea what's happening. Finally, I am told that it's the starter, they're expediting one, and will install it and then fix my fender. That was a Thursday (9/10). Jeep Cares confirmed it was delivered the following Monday (9/14) I hear nothing all week. Finally, that Friday (9/18) I call and speak to the service department manager who says the starter is in route and should be there that day. I ask how that's possible since FIAT confirmed delivery on 9/14. I get no answer. Monday comes and goes, no update. On Tuesday (9/22) I call and speak to the dealer's GSM. He is transferring the case to his "most senior service advisor", tells me the part will be installed that day, and I can either pick it up, or wait for them to schedule paint to get the fender fixed. I tell them I don't want it until everything is done. It takes them another week + to get it painted, but they call me yesterday (10/1) to pick it up. Finally, it's over and I can get my jeep back. Hah.

I make it home (35 miles) with no issues. I park it for a few hours, and decide to get lunch. Go to crank it up, and it doesn't start. Same symptoms as when I had to bring it back. There's no way it's going back to Newnan at this point.

I call FIAT roadside and tell them to take it to a pretty popular dealer about 18-24 miles away from me, depending on how you go. I am in Atlanta, and chose Gwinnett CDJR. They tell me it'll be $134 since that is not the closest dealer. The closest dealer is 19 miles away. I ask them why they would not cover to them since it is basically the same distance, and they just say "the system says it's not covered." They give me a list of dealers that are covered (Ed Voyles, Don Jackson, Atlanta West, Landmark). Whatever, it's late in the afternoon. I decide I'll call Ed Voyles, since they are the only in that list I remotely trust (but just barely), see how long it'll be to get to it, and have it towed the following day, Friday (10/2). I call back this morning to schedule the tow, and after having to repeat EVERYTHING (VIN, symptoms, address, etc) even though I was told I wouldn't have to, they set up the tow. I get a text and check the status. They sent a FREAKING JUMP START SERVICE. Even after I confirmed the destination address and tow with the Roadside Agent. I call AGAIN. I have to repeat everything AGAIN. Luckily, I finally get a lady that sounds like she has a brain in her head, she can't understand everything I have gone through up to this point, asks me where I want to get it taken to, and quickly gets a flatbed dispatched. 30 minutes later, it's on its way to Marietta.

If you have made it this far, thanks for reading. Ed Voyles already told me it'll likely be late next week before they can look at it, but I am so over everything at this point, and at least they are setting my expectations up front. Luckily, thanks to COVID I don't need my Jeep for work since I am working from home, and we can use my girlfriend's car for everything else. But JFC. From my original dealer scratching the vehicle and not telling me, not actually fixing it after 7 weeks, not communicating and their general lack of competence, to Jeep Care's lack of actual caring, to Roadside's inability to set up a simple tow, I am over all levels of the Jeep experience. Bring on the Bronco. I'm sure Ford's experience isn't much better, but they at least haven't given me a reason to hate them yet.






This fellow posted an update today, 4 weeks after he first posted his JL troubles.

“Well, they replaced the transmission valve body, and I picked it up. Made it about 20 miles, at which point the cluster flashed “auto park disengaged” then another mile or so I got the “service electronic stability control” cluster message. followed by the electronic stability control warning light. I exited the highway, and while climbing a hill (accelerating) the check engine light came on and I had a total loss of power. Had to stop, shift to park and drive again, and made it the last half mile home.

Calling a tow truck tomorrow and taking it back to the second dealership. At this point, I’m just at a loss of words.”
 

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Catastrophic failures that can leave you stranded are my worst fear for a vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter #479
The poor guy is at a loss. He spent a boatload of money on a vehicle that leaves him stranded over and over, no matter how many times the JL goes into the dealer to get fixed.
 

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The poor guy is at a loss. He spent a boatload of money on a vehicle that leaves him stranded over and over, no matter how many times the JL goes into the dealer to get fixed.
At some point I assume the lemon law will probably kick in?
 
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