Marchionne wants to axe Fiat and Chrysler brands?

Lampredi · Jul 31, 2013

From AutoEdizione:

Sergio Marchionne made a few remarkable – to say the least – statements yesterday. One of them was that the CEO is thinking about letting go of the brands Fiat and Chrysler in Europe and the US (not in Brazil and other emerging economies). The reason for which is that both brands are suffering from an image problem on these continents. This very strange ‘plan’ is, by the way, in line with the plans to expand the 500- and Panda-label. The fact that there are barely any Fiat-badges to be found on both the 500 as well as the Panda is a clear indication.

Read the whole thing here: "Marchionne possibly wants to replace car brands Fiat and Chrysler"

Could there possibly be any truth to this? If so, that's nothing short of insane! But it does bring to mind the claim by the alleged FGA insider (with a pro-VW stance) Busso D.O.H.C about a year ago that "[Marchionne] is convinced he cannot recover fiat image in Europe, but for a tiny part. Here's where the 500 family starts and develops as a quasi-independent brand."

And then there's issue of the Chrysler brand, about which the linked article above says "Marchionne would have said that it’d be best to look for a ‘new’ brand with a portfolio full of new products." (I don't understand from that sentence whether Marchionne said this or not, the way it's written it sounds like the article writer just assumes that Marchionne "would have" said it, but it doesn't really make sense just to assume that out of the blue without him actually having said it...)

LXbuilder · Jul 31, 2013

Oh boy.

TripleT · Jul 31, 2013

I am wondering about the complete context of the quote.

Fiat gone in US and Europe make perfect since replaced by 500 and Panda

Chrysler name gone in Europe, which it nearly is replaced by Lancia.

It wouldn't make sense to shed Chrysler in North America .... it would have to be phased out worst case.

AlfaCuda · Jul 31, 2013

Extremely unlikely I think.

dana44 · Jul 31, 2013

Fiat in the USA does have a bad rep, but I thought the Fiat brand was far superior to other models in its category, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to pull a Datsun to become Nissan with Chrysler, Dodge, and Fiat. It does kind of explain the "Ram" brand, and the article is not clear enough to indicate if it were to be Dodge, Chrysler, Ram and Jeep that would get a new name or just Chrysler and Fiat. Not a good article to say the least.

Mopar392 · Jul 31, 2013

Fiat out of US & EU is understandable since 500 family contain mostly all of Fiat lineup with the exception of B- & C-size cars..
Chrysler out of EU will allow the chance to Lancia to build up itself but not with badge-engineered cars, and carry Fiat's replacement of B- & C- cars.
Chrysler can't, noway I think, be pulled out of US market. Which brand of Chrysler LLC would replace it?

Muther · Jul 31, 2013

...but the article makes no mention of the new Chrysler Argon, nor the impe ding sale of Alfa Romeo to VW.

FreeLantz · Jul 31, 2013

Sounds like it was taken out of context. He did probably mean they are considering taking the Fiat brand out of the US, and the Chrysler brand out of Europe. Not both out of both markets.

Fiat isn't catching on here as they had hoped, Chrysler has little presence in Europe. The Fiat models being sold in the US could fit into either the Dodge or Chrysler brand lineups with a few cosmetic changes, while the Chryslers being sold in Europe could (and already are in some places) easily be sold as Lancias.

The US dealers who just spent a bunch building stand-alone showrooms for Fiat wouldn't be too happy though.

Dave Z · Jul 31, 2013

I agree it was taken out of context. I don't think that's what he meant. He certainly has said in the past that he is de-emphasizing the Fiat brand and pushing the individual model families that are popular. I suspect it's a matter of marketing, e.g. "Buy the new 500L!" instead of "Buy the new Fiat Bronchea!"

Likewise, we know Chrysler 300 is being seen as a moderately separate brand now... so Chrysler is Plymouth with chrome but Chrysler 300 is moving up.

PS> With Fiat 500 matching standard-Mini sales, and 500L set to go up against Countryman, I don't think Fiat is a big failure here.

dana44 · Jul 31, 2013

There are what, two or three models of Fiats in the USA market? Kind of hard to base the future of Fiat with that in the market. Chrysler and Dodge in EU is about the same thing as Fiat here. One can't base a market ability on a limited number of vehicles in country. I am sure the Japanese and Koreans had the same problems in the USA when they first started here, marketing and a good product to back it up helps.

BASONE88 · Jul 31, 2013

Agreed Dave, FIAT as a brand and it's reputation is fast recovering. Dana, the RAM brand was already being established in 2008 with the introduction of the new model.

Stratuscaster · Jul 31, 2013

I would imagine the Fiat Studios would be getting whatever Alfas arrive here.

(If they arrive. :huh

dana44 · Jul 31, 2013

BASONE88, it was Dodge Ram, it is listed on titles as of a month ago as Dodge, the parts say Dodge, and it will always be a Dodge to me. Commercials used to say Dodge Ram, and just becaue they just say Ram now doesn't make it anything other than a Dodge.

I get tired of all this "We gotta rename something because someone will remember it from the past" mentality. A Dodge is a Dodge, a Fiat is a Fiat. A good hamburger is a good hamburger. Quit trying to tell me a bad apple isn't a bad apple, it's now a banana and everyone is going to simply forget about the bad apple and love bananas just because it has a new name. I would much rather know a bad apple was turned around and into a good apple and know it improved instead of finding out the bad apple and banana are both bad because I am smart enough to know it was nothing more than a change in name because people are too stupid to recognize the banana looks like a bad apple. Make changes, fix a problem, and let people know what the fix is. Don't try to BS me and everyone else, that's just wrong.

Understand?

Guest · Jul 31, 2013

If one believes the five-year plan(s) that have been released, then either brand is not going away...that said (and as I've said before), disinformation is definitely a part of the corporate world...keep the competitors guessing as to the real plans...

Muther · Jul 31, 2013

Personally, I make little distinction between the Mopar brands. I see only Mopars.

Weird, Ferrari is now Mopar.

dana44 · Jul 31, 2013

Muther said:
Personally, I make little distinction between the Mopar brands. I see only Mopars.

Weird, Ferrari is now Mopar.

This is true, but just like GM, there are Chevys and there are Cadillacs.

TripleT · Aug 1, 2013

Graham truck will always be Graham brother Trucks, I mean Graham Dodge Truck, I mean Dodge Trucks, I mean Dodge Ram Trucks, I mean Ram Trucks..... oh what ever.

Its all marketing, they are Chrysler/Fiat trucks, before that they Cerebus/Chrysler, before that DiamlerChrysler, after the were Chrysler.

dana44 · Aug 1, 2013

TripleT said:
Graham truck will always be Graham brother Trucks, I mean Graham Dodge Truck, I mean Dodge Trucks, I mean Dodge Ram Trucks, I mean Ram Trucks..... oh what ever.

Its all marketing, they are Chrysler/Fiat trucks, before that they Cerebus/Chrysler, before that DiamlerChrysler, after the were Chrysler.

Didn't you forget Graham Paige somewhere in there?

DaimlerChrysler was a management error, not a govenment givaway problem.

Jeepnut · Aug 1, 2013

Stratuscaster said:
I would imagine the Fiat Studios would be getting whatever Alfas arrive here.(If they arrive. :huh

They will and they are I just visited my local studio to check out a 500C Abarth and the are getting Alfa. The only issue is how the Alfa rollout here is gonna happen! Seriously if anyone thinks Fiat or Chrysler is going away then put down the drugs. I mean what did the Dodge death rumors not get enough traction so now we are stuck with this crap!

jerseyjoe · Aug 1, 2013

burnout said:
If one believes the five-year plan(s) that have been released, then either brand is not going away...that said (and as I've said before), disinformation is definitely a part of the corporate world...keep the competitors guessing as to the real plans...

In 1962 Chevrolet started a rumor that it was downsizing its vehicles, Chrysler responded by a quick attempt at downsizing that compromised vehicle appeal and sales, disinformation. But the smaller vehicles turned out to be quicker and handled better, This inspired a song by the Beach boys called Shutdown 413 Dodge Dart giving a fuel inject Corvette a hard time. For me it signaled the birth of the affordable Muscle car era. I remember seeing a Red 1963 Dodge with 426 Ramcharger engine rumbeling around town that all the hot roders pretended not to see at the drive in burger joints.Lots of fun back then and you didn't have to spend Corvette money. My point, disinformation is a double edged sword.

“When a Dodge loses these days,” boasted one MoPar ad, “it’s to another Dodge.”

http://musclecars.howstuffworks.com/classic-muscle-cars/1963-dodge-426-ramcharger.htm

hmk123 · Aug 1, 2013

Focus on building great, affordable products, market them like you did the 200 and keep the company growing... Enough of this New Coke talk. Keep it Classic...

BASONE88 · Aug 1, 2013

Dana, I am right there with you..to be clear; I don't disagree. I apologize for being Captain Obvious, and did not want to imply the name change meant anything..perhaps I misunderstood; it sounded to me like you were saying RAM was a S.M. brainchild.

Correct me if I'm wrong..but the big idea was to separate Dodge trucks from Dodge cars. I think a similar move, was to separate high performance Dodges from low performance Dodges via SRT.

Muther · Aug 1, 2013

hmk123 said:
Focus on building great, affordable products, market them like you did the 200 and keep the company growing... Enough of this New Coke talk. Keep it Classic...

There are many people (insiders) that have argued for a long time that the "New Coke vs. Classic Coke" debacle was planned from the beginning.

At no time in the history of marketing has there ever been a product that got that much free advertising for that long. ...AAAAAAND then, Coke Classic hits the shelves, and the free hype continued. Anyone that thinks Coke Classic was planned AFTER new Coke was intro'd, needs serious help. It wasn't a debacle, it was genius, and now THIRTY years later it still gets mileage (oddly, I now want a Coke).

Overall I agree with you, though. Design it right, build it better, and have good marketing, and it will sell. Nothing is so wrong with a company, that good product, can't fix it, or make a good company better.

I agree with Dave, though, specifically about the stupid article, though. Just a blogger filling a word count, so the ad slimes can sell ad space around it.

MoparNorm · Aug 1, 2013

Any chance the article was written by the same guy who just botched the financial report on yahoo?

dana44 · Aug 1, 2013

BASONE88 said:
Dana, I am right there with you..to be clear; I don't disagree. I apologize for being Captain Obvious, and did not want to imply the name change meant anything..perhaps I misunderstood; it sounded to me like you were saying RAM was a S.M. brainchild.

Correct me if I'm wrong..but the big idea was to separate Dodge trucks from Dodge cars. I think a similar move, was to separate high performance Dodges from low performance Dodges via SRT.

Ram being separated from Dodge was during the same time Dodge was being though of as a dump name, too, there just was too much Chrysler/Dodge overlap and it was an idea. No reason why the Ram portion had to stick in my opinion, Chevy and Ford both have cars and trucks that are associated with each other without a problem, so it was just "a move".

As far as SRT goes, once the RWD was finally reintroduced after 15 or so FWD only cars, several years into RWD 300 Chrysler, then charger Sedan, and Magnum, SRT was started as, "We can build a Street, Race and Track car that will outperform a car twice its price", which it did for the first couple years. SRT in the first couple years did just that, along with the SRT-4 Neon (but couldn't call it a Neon, it had a bad name to it and they didn't want to hurt the image or some BS like that), and it was/is a very potent 4 cylinder FWD SRT going for around $20K. It wasn't until about the fourth year of SRT that prices went a little too high to have real impact. Still nice cars, lost track of its purpose for a bit, but still a good program, but not to take away from the Chrysler, Dodge, or Jeep to delineate them low or high performance only.

As far as the Classic Coke goes, possible. Problem is, it seems there are a few too many of these little rumors that keep coming true, and I don't think it is the best thing for the company name (if nothing else). She still maintains that 11 percent volume domestically, why chance losing that? As far as a Coke Classic, yes, nothing but, and with lots of ice and a little bit of rum (it's a Navy thing for me).

superduckie5000 · Aug 1, 2013

It's August 1st, Not April 1st.

Bad Joke.

TMD

Marchionne wants to axe Fiat and Chrysler brands?

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