. . . . OK, so my PT has been running fine lately. . . . .
. . . . The next day, drove for about 7 miles and the PT suddenly went into limp mode. MIL lamp came on and codes P0700 and P0882 were set. . . . .
. . . . Today had an additional code P0562 for the first time. . . . .

. . . . P0700 is a general transmission system code whereas P0882 and P0562 indicate a low voltage issue.
The battery seems OK with specific gravity between 1.245 and 1.260 all cells. Battery load tested OK. Battery voltage engine off is 12.6VDC and is 14.3VDC engine running at idle.
Battery connections all are clean and tight, no corrosion. The inner fender grounds G102, G104, G105 have all been reworked to provide good ground contact.
On one occasion, when the PT went into limp mode, got lucky and happened to be watching the voltage (have a Scan Gauge II connected to the DLC all the time) and noticed no drop out. It was solid 14.1 volts at time of going into limp mode. . . . .

You have done some preliminary diagnostic work and eliminated known issues with poor grounds and poor power connections. You have verified that the alternator is producing proper output voltage to the electrical system. As difficult it might seeem this issue appeared AFTER changing to a different brand of transmission fluild. But I highly doubt it was caused by different fluid but is just coincidental.

P0882 and P0562 inidcate that the PCM has detected a low voltage issue after the PCM commands the TIPM to power up the transmission control circuit output. The PCM through the T15 circuit issues a voltage command to the TIPM to energize the T16 circuit to the transmission control solenoids and signal the PCM that it has completed the requested task. The PCM is not seeing continuous, proper voltage on the T16 circuit and thus sets the P0882 and P0562 codes. Check connections between the PCM and TIPM and back to the PCM. See attached image.

Also go to this recent link in March 22, 2024 where code P0882 is discussed. Contributor ImperialCrown discusses theory of operation and possible causes in post #3 about this code. Pay particular attention to post #2 and #5 about checking the T15 and T16 circuits. Ignore discussion about the incorrect illumination of the PRNDL indicator which does not apply in your situation. Model years 2006 - 2010 are all the same with code P0882.

https://www.allpar.com/threads/06-pt-cruiser-2-4-non-turbo-pcm-p0882.246074/?post_id=1085383819#post-1085383819

 

Highly doubt it has anything to do with the fluid.
In January, my van stalled at highway speed and I coasted to a stop, got a transmission code and low voltage code. Those codes simply came from falling voltage recorded just as the ignition circuit opened. It started immediately and has run fine since. I believe it's an intermittently loose ignition key cylinder, as sometimes it has to be tilted to crank when turned to start, and also in the OFF position, radio and indicator lights can flicker if the key is touched.
Did you actually clean the battery connections, or do a visual check (which is insufficient). Always best to clean them regardless of appearance. You can also test for a good connection by placing a voltmeter across a terminal and its clamp, turning the headlights on with engine off, and observing voltage drop. Should be 0.1 volts or less at each post.

 

When I look at the 'Possible Causes' of multiple fault codes, I try to see what causes might share & have in common. The most likely scenario is that one thing has failed & is causing the grief. Of course there is always the chance that two things have failed at the same time, but past experience has shown that to be rare.
I agree that this is an electrical, not hydraulic or mechanical problem.

If you have been able to rule out poor connections & poor grounds, the next possible culprit is the PCM/TCM itself.
To make sure that we don't have a 'hidden' electrical issue, I'd stop by your friendly, local auto parts store and ask for a comprehensive charging system test to make sure that we don't have an alternator output 'ripple' problem that can make sensitive electronics act crazy. Usually if the counter isn't too busy, they can spare someone.

Alternator Ripple Testing: The Ghost in the Machine - Tire Review Magazine

Before computers and networks in vehicles, an alternator that was producing AC voltage or ripple through the electrical system would cause flickering lights and maybe an ignition problem. Today, excessive ripple voltage can cause communication issues with networks and communication DTCs in...

www.tirereview.com

 

Thanks for the replies... plenty of food for thought here for me to digest.
Spent most of the afternoon inspecting and cleaning various connections.
Will update after some troubleshooting based on the above posts.

 

Today, continued inspecting and cleaning connections. At this point, G100, G101, G102, G104, G105 have all been cleaned as well as the positive battery connection at the starter motor, and the A+ connection at the alternator. Battery posts have been cleaned and the negative battery cable was replaced (the copper strands looked to be oxidized).
All connections were coated with Jet Lube SS-30 pure copper. As a sidenote, years ago, the OEM #6 battery cables were replaced with #4 copper and the crappy sheet metal screw grounds at the inner fenders were moved to a better location and replaced with 1/4" hardware. Tested all grounds engine to chassis to battery and to each other every which way and all read .1 ohm or less. Checked the grounds on pins 12,13,14 on PCM connector C4 and all read .1 ohm or less.

Did an AC voltage ripple test idle to 1500 RPM or so at various load conditions. Observed 15 to 30 mv AC... this is not a significant value so not going to worry about it for now.

Have not test driven the PT since cleaning the connections as nothing too dramatic was found. Currently pondering my next move(s) and sequence.

 

. . . . Have not test driven the PT since cleaning the connections as nothing too dramatic was found. Currently pondering my next move(s) and sequence. . . . .

Clear diagnostic codes. Drive vehicle and if P0882 returns you need to look at the T15 and T16 circuit between the PCM and the TIPM. The PCM commands through the T15 circuit for the TIPM to energize and provide power to the TCM portion of the TCM and transmission control solenoid. The TIPM energizes the T16 circuit. If there is a short to ground or power on the T16 circuit or a poor electrical connection and voltage drops, the PCM senses this and tells the TIPM to de-enterize the T16 circuit. The trnasmission goes into limp mode ( 2nd gear) and code P0882 is set.

Go to this link where I made a recent discussion of how to check the T15 and T16 circuits. Attached image shows the thread you want to find and read. Scroll to post #20, dated Apr 7, 2024.

https://www.allpar.com/threads/06-pt-cruiser-turbo-crank-but-no-start.246154/?post_id=1085385003#post-1085385003

 

Possible TIPM fault codes related to the TCM:

• P128B-TCM POWER CONTROL CIRCUIT 2 LOW
• P128C-TCM POWER CONTROL CIRCUIT 2 HIGH
• P128D-TCM POWER CONTROL CIRCUIT 2 OPEN
• P128E-TCM POWER CONTROL CIRCUIT 2 OVERCURRENT

 

Thanks for the info... have not seen any of these odd-looking codes.

 

Thanks Allan, interesting thread regarding troubleshooting the T15/T16 circuits.

Since the alternator and battery seem to be OK and the connections have all been gone through, this seems to be the next logical step (after a test drive).
The vid showing how the independent tech troubleshot the problem was especially interesting. That guy knows how to logically troubleshoot. Taking my PT to the dealer
is not an option at this point because they most likely will not troubleshoot in such a fashion. A 16 yr old car will likely get handed to the lowest rookie and parts (expensive parts... transmission, TIPM, PCM) will get thrown at it until maybe it gets fixed.

However, the work around fix by the independent tech that essentially bypasses the TIPM seems to me to maybe defeat the purpose of interrogating the TIPM.
What do you think?

 

. . . . Thanks Allan, interesting thread regarding troubleshooting the T15/T16 circuits. . . . .
. . . .
However, the work around fix by the independent tech that essentially bypasses the TIPM seems to me to maybe defeat the purpose of interrogating the TIPM. What do you think? . . . .

The technician at Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics, Ivan, used a two channel scope to monitor active voltage on the T15 / T16 circuits. The scope display for the T15 and T16 circuits starts at time interval 28:00. Link to part 1 below.

Note that the T16 circuit has voltage that is dropping out intermittently. Finally the T16 circuit fails and a few milliseconds later the PCM detects this and de-entergizes the T15 circuit. This made his diagnosis of a failed TIPM T16 circuit absolute and then led to his "fix".

If you do not have access to a two channel scope you could wire in the external relay as shown. Another cheaper, faster option is to wire in a 2 position ON / OFF switch from a fused power source to the T16 circuit. It should be robust enough to power the T16 circuit amperage.

Install the temporary switch. Clear all diagnostic coces. Start the engine and then immediately turn this temporary switch to ON. You must follow this procedure exactly. The bypass power to the T16 circuit keeps it energized continuously and if voltage anomalies occur on the T16 circuit caused by the TIPM, they are over shadlowed by the bypass arrangement. If code P0882 does not reappear you have identified a failed T16 TIPM circuit as the culprit. Then you could go to a permanent fix of installing the bypass relay to the T16 circuit.

 

The TIPM may need a more advanced scan tool to get into the module. Most OBD2 scan tools can only look in the PCM or TCM.
Does your tool list the TIPM as a choice on its module selection screen?

 

The TIPM may need a more advanced scan tool to get into the module. Most OBD2 scan tools can only look in the PCM or TCM.
Does your tool list the TIPM as a choice on its module selection screen?

IDK... my most advanced scan tool is an Innova 5160RS, the instructions say it can view what they call "OEM Enhanced DTCs".
There is no mention of the TIPM specifically. Going to have to play with it and see what comes up. Will let you know.

 

TIPM might also be called Gateway, IPM or something to do with Smart Power Distribution/Management.
I see SAS (steering angle sensor), ABS (brake/TRAC/ESP) & TPM (tire inflation) for the 5160RS, but nothing beyond that.

The 5160RS is a comprehensive tool for what it is, but I don't see the capabilities for miscellaneous modules like TIPM, Passive Restraints, Instrument Cluster, HVAC, Immobilizer (SKIM), Audio, Heated seats/mirrors, etc.

Can it at least display the fault codes found in other modules on the CAN bus?
I took my wife's Patriot to Autozone to get codes read. They handed me a dongle to plug into diagnostic connector out in the parking lot. It was Bluetooth, so they could do a readout in the store. It printed out a complete vehicle module scan. I was very impressed. If I remember correctly, it also looked at the TIPM.

 

Took the PT for a test drive and it went into limp mode after only about a mile of travel. P0700 and P0882 were displayed on the Scan Gauge II as usual.
Got it home and plugged in the Innova scan tool. It showed P0882 as the priority code. Looking at the freeze frame data for this code showed that PCM voltage was 14.4v
at the time of failure. Getting into the enhanced mode and looking specifically at the PCM, general code P0700 was displayed. Looking specifically at the TCM, P0882 and P1684 were displayed.
It says P1684 means that the battery was disconnected. Since all codes were cleared before the test drive, the P1684 has nothing to do with the fact that the battery was disconnected yesterday for connector cleaning. Rather, it caught the loss of power to the TCM while the PCM portion of the NGC had power.

btw... also, did a battery and alternator test with the Innova... both checked good. Therefore, based on this and all the cleaning of connectors and prior battery and alternator tests, the electrical itself appears solid.

So, the TIPM, specifically circuits T15/T16, appears to be the problem. Next, going to take apart PCM connector C4 to access the appropriate pins.

 

I'm not a fan of "modifications" because so long as all of the components of a system are properly working, there should be no need of any "modifications." But it is your PT and you can do with it what you want to.

Several years ago my PT fell into limp mode. At that time, between 3 different shops working on my PT and a lawsuit against one of the shops in the middle, the trans solenoid shift pack, the TIPM and the PCM were all replaced. So it's really hard to tell which of those components actually fixed the issue, but I was not in a place that I could let one shop finish the work because the one in the middle caused problems that another shop took over.

But in the middle of these shops work, I got a reman TIPM from Dorman and it was plug-n-play as far as the install, very easy to do and it required no dealership programming.

Then when another shop working on an unrelated issue on my PT fried that TIPM, then another shop installed a MOPAR TIPM which did require dealership programming.

In the end, I did win a little $ against one of the shops due to their negligence, when he had filed a $10,000 lawsuit against me for some online reviews I had posted. I had a lawyer, but not everything in this world is freedom of speech. But the fact that I got something from that shop, to me is a win, all I had to do was to remove the online reviews.

Also somewhere in the mix of all of those hassles, I got a PCM off Ebay which is still working fine to this day, no issues.

But for not much $ you could possibly pick up a used TIPM at a salvage yard. There have been numerous posts of numerous problems being solved with a used TIPM. It will learn what is on your vehicle and basically should be plug-n-play.

And I realize that one day my PT will no longer be economical to repair, but I would rather spend a few $ now in repairs rather than spending $$$ over a log period of time in new car payments.

Good luck with your PT and I look forward to reading a successful repair.

 

. . . . edit... disregard my above concern for now. Upon my re-reading of the theory of operation, it appears that the TIPM may merely be acting as a switch. IDK for sure if the TIPM has any smarts. But anyway, my next step will be getting access to T15/T16 @ PCM connector C4. . . . .

The TIPM is a smart slave with its own internal logic. It processes commands through direct hard wire to the module or over the network. It tuns on and off various devices according to electrical commands it receives. It has the capability of disabling a circuit if the circuit becomes open or shorted.

Before model year 2006 and adoption of the TIPM, the PCM energized a transmission control relay to power up the transmission solenoid pack and inform the PCM this request has been accomplished. In year 2006 and later this transmission relay control function was incorporated into the TIPM.

Trying to track down more exact TIPM codes will not provide much more help. Code P0882 tells it all in that something is causing the T16 output circuit from the TIPM to the PCM to lose power. Internal TIPM problem? Wiring problem? That has to be solved to resolve this code P0882 issue.

. . . . I'm not a fan of "modifications" because so long as all of the components of a system are properly working, there should be no need of any "modifications." But it is your PT and you can do with it what you want to. . . . .

This statement makes sense if one could rely on the fact that Chrysler designed and outside suppliers manufactured a quality product with the TIPM. Unfortunately when the TIPM was adopted in the early to mid 2000 era, there were lots of problems with these modules. Circuits were failing and the only option was to replace an expensive module only to have similar problems in the future.

The idea of a bypass, external relay seems justified. It will be more reliable than sourcing another used TIPM and all its potential problems. If the external relay were to fail, it is easily replaced at little expense.

One thing that has not been addressed is that splice S136 in the circuit. That needs to be inspected to make sure there is no corrosion or other issue causing a power feed problem to the PCM at terminal #19, #28, PCM connector C4. Same inspection required for connector C102 on the T16 circuit.

 

So, back at it again... took apart PCM connector C4 and located T15 pin 18 LG and T16 pin 38 YL/OR. Carefully removed a small section of insulation on each. Started the PT (with all codes cleared) and drove a short distance and got MIL, P0882, P0700, and limp. Without shutting off the engine, tested T15 and T16... no voltage on either.

Shut off engine, cleared codes, restarted engine and had voltage on both T15 and T16. Connected a fused jumper test lead from battery+ to T16. Test drove the PT for about 8 miles... no problems.
With engine still running, had voltage on both T15 and T16... disconnected the test lead... still had voltage on both T15 and T16... drove for several minutes without the test lead... no problems.
Shut down, restarted, re-installed the test lead, drove 4 miles with no problems... removed the test lead drove 10 miles with no problem. Hmmm?

Shut down, restarted, (no test lead), drove a short distance and got MIL and limp with codes. Shut down, cleared codes, drove another short distance and got the MIL, limp, and codes again...
checked T15 and T16... no voltage on either.

Anyway, this has me scratching my head a little. Don't know why it drove OK for so long without the test lead. Without knowing exactly what is going on inside the TIPM or NGC it is hard to know what all installing the test lead accomplishes other than acting as a jumper. Does it also cause certain circuits to "seal in" so that voltage is still present when it is removed? Maybe it is just coincidence that the PT drove so long without the test lead (doubtful). Maybe it's just me overanalyzing things.

Sure is frustrating for me (someone who learned electronics back in the tube era and eventually the solid state era where it was necessary to troubleshoot down to the component) to look at a wiring diagram and see an empty box labelled simply "electronics".

At this point, since there was never a failure with the jumper test lead installed, gonna go ahead and just install the relay and hopefully be done with it all.

 

. . . . Anyway, this has me scratching my head a little. Don't know why it drove OK for so long without the test lead. Without knowing exactly what is going on inside the TIPM or NGC it is hard to know what all installing the test lead accomplishes other than acting as a jumper. Does it also cause certain circuits to "seal in" so that voltage is still present when it is removed? Maybe it is just coincidence that the PT drove so long without the test lead (doubtful). Maybe it's just me overanalyzing things. . . . .

What you have proven is that the T16 circuit which is the load side output of the TIPM transmission control relay circuit is intermittent. So maybe it has a bad solder joint that is causing the intermittency? It works for a while but then current flow through the circuit causes sometihing to heat up slightly and you get an intermittent open circuit.

. . . . At this point, since there was never a failure with the jumper test lead installed, gonna go ahead and just install the relay and hopefully be done with it all. . . .

Yes. You are installing a permanent fix to the intermittent problem. Using a hard wired bypass relay eliminates circuit board solder joint problems. If the external relay would ever fail, it is a simple, easy fix.

 

Update... it has been a couple of days, multiple errands, and 48 miles since installing the relay and so far, so good... no P0882, no MIL, no limp.
Hopefully, this proves to be the fix.
Thanks to all who contributed to the resolution.

 

What relay did you install may I ask

 

2006 PT Cruiser 2.4 non turbo convertible

 

You didn't mention whether the battery was checked or replaced.
The electrical system has to be healthy but it seems as if you have pretty much checked it out.
The problem on mine was in the TIPM. The relay merely bypassed the TIPM.
The P0882 code along with limp mode seems to be a known problem on second generation PTs
due to a glitch in the TIPM. The relay does nothing to fix the problem in the TIPM (bad solder
joint, bad driver transistor?) but serves as a work around to avoid replacement of the costly TIPM.
My preference would be to replace the TIPM but the relay fix has worked for me for the past 7 months. YMMV.

 

Yes new battery also is there any possibility you can give me in detail how I could do this? Thank you so much for responding and trying to help me with this I love my girl and everybody keeps telling me it's a PT Cruiser junk it but she has so many new parts on her and she looks so beautiful. Runs like a charm until this happened.

 

 

Yes I have used her as a truck in the past I'm single and no help so I do the best I can

 

Nice looking PT!
This thread with the various links and video explains it all as to how to install the relay.
It is a bit tedious to take it all in and not for the faint-hearted but IMHO worth the effort
because otherwise you are potentially looking at replacing the TIPM.
If you are not an electronics type person perhaps you know a friend that is so inclined
who could guide you along.

 

Thank you again

 

I had purchased a Dorman replacement TIPM for my PT and it was truly plug & play. At that time they were just under $300, now they are over $700.

It might still be working today in my PT but a shop, while doing some other work, fried it and it was replaced by an OE TIPM.

It can be a little daunting to replace, once you turn the TIPM over and look at all of the connectors. But once you figure out how they unlock and unplug, it is really a simple process to replace.

There are plenty on Ebay of remanufactured for around $200. Just be aware that there is a different one for the sedan and 'vert.

ShieldSquare Captcha

Pardon Our Interruption...

I have also read stories of people buying one at salvage yards for as little as $20 as the yard may just consider the part a fuse box. I don't know what kind of chances there would be of finding a 'vert in a salvage yard. But if you got one out of a salvage, it could have the same problem that yours has, or other issues.

Good luck with your 'vert

 

MelissaAnn44691. You might try getting in touch with fellow member Myckee about a replacement TIPM. I'm not sure if he messes with the second gen PT's but he sure can tune a first gen PT control module like nobody else. What say you Myckee? Are you following this thread?

 

Thank you I will try my best. I'm still learning how to navigate on here.

 

I sent Myckee a message. He's a busy guy, so it may be a day or two or longer before he replies. I asked him to contact you, but I may get a response first. If I do, I'll let you know what he says.

 

Hello Chuzz, how can I possibly reach this Myckee Gentleman? I'm not too savvy about this site on how to get around on it.

 

Oh thank you so much that's so kind of you.

 

At this point, the TIPM can be assumed to be the culprit but to make sure, you need to verify loss of signal on the T16 circuit when the PT is in limp mode with P0882 DTC displayed.
If so, then the TIPM transmission control output circuit is bad.

There are two options to correct the problem. Either bypass the TIPM with a relay as has been discussed or replace the TIPM.
Each has its advantages and disadvantages. The relay would be by far the least expensive fix given that the other functions of the TIPM seem to be OK.
However, if you or whoever has been working on the PT does not feel competent to install the
bypass relay or would prefer not to do a work around type repair, then a replacement TIPM is the only other option.

Looks like Dorman offers a remanufactured TIPM for your PT... P/N 599-938. Supposedly it is plug and play. You will have to check
on price and availability near you as well as confirm compatibility with your PT.

The relay fix has so far worked for me, however, only you can decide which option would make you feel most comfortable.

 

I just don't understand these cars it's my second one they're so finicky. Now if I go to the car wash and get the underbody wash that pressure from the water somehow makes my car shift again for a while all three gears and then it seems as if I hit a bump or something it automatically has my airbag dings the light illuminates for the airbag and then the car down shifts again into limp mode.

 

The additional information that you have provided concerning the water thing in your post #47 is disturbing.
See post #48 by Allan for details. As mentioned in my post #46, verify loss of signal at T16 of the TIPM before condemning it.
Looks like more troubleshooting may be required here. Throwing parts at a problem may not only not solve the problem
but could create additional problems in the process.