He really screwed up big time announcing that. Now, maybe he was disgruntled about electrics and launched it the way he did on purpose. We'll never know. Why he didn't talk about all power and drivetrain options is beyond me. Like I've said before, they do not even use the resources they have to the fullest of their abilities. That rests solely on management.

 

Well, I can kind of understand it somewhat since if I remember correctly a year ago most OEMs were just talking about their EV plans and Stellantis hadn‘t had much to show for up until then. But at the same time one needs to know their customer base and can‘t expect everyone to switch to EVs on the spot.

You are right, given their just recent Hurricane investment it was a failed opportunity. Almost like you couldnt talk ICE at all.

iMHO they better start with a “Powered by a Hurricane” or something like it strategy.

 

They did do a bunch of releases on the Hurricane, but mass media ignored them. That's always a problem, the big media want to report a story, not facts. The presidential campaigns of the last 30 years have been massively afflicted by that and "horse racing" (a journalistic fallacy where all news about politicians is reported as a horse race - not about substance but about "he did this for votes" or "this is how it will affect the polls." Political reporters don't seem to ever get that sometimes politicians do things because they are the right things to do, and often it loses votes. [stuff removed]

Anyway, the media filters used to be a lot more based on "what seems important," but now it's all about clicks, so the Hurricane stuff and anything technical was under-reported. Even when we did report it at stellpower, darned few people read it compared to the other stories.

I did post a bunch on motales. Hurricane Six (GME T6)

 

Another commonality for both Hurricanes are their aluminum heads with pent-roof combustion chambers. Each uses a double overhead camshaft (DOHC) valvetrain layout with four valves per cylinder. Intake and exhaust cams have independent timing, with up to 60 degrees of advance on the intake and 55 degrees on the exhaust.

"a modified hemi head..."

similar to this photo.

 

Another commonality for both Hurricanes are their aluminum heads with pent-roof combustion chambers. Each uses a double overhead camshaft (DOHC) valvetrain layout with four valves per cylinder. Intake and exhaust cams have independent timing, with up to 60 degrees of advance on the intake and 55 degrees on the exhaust.

"a modified hemi head..."

similar to this photo.
View attachment 103954

They should've called a Hemi of some sort. It worked out well for the Aussies, and that engine wasn't really too much of a Hemi.

 

Ironically the Kaiser-Jeep 'Tornado' SOHC I-6 1963-1965 also had serious issues in design and structure that ruined its reputation. History repeating itself. Jeep Tornado engine - Wikipedia

 

Are there any pictures of the block or heads? All I have ever seen any publish is photos of completed engines.

 

Stellantis Media - Press Kit: Hurricane 3L Twin-turbo I-6 Engine:Stellantis Debuts Hurricane Twin-turbo I-6 Engine That Cuts Emissions, Increases Fuel Economy AND Is More Powerful (stellantisnorthamerica.com)

 

What about carbon build up in this direct injected engine? I saw some concerns because port injection is missing?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15342328/explained-why-some-engines-have-both-port-and-direct-injection/#

 

It's going to have the same carbon buildup issue as everything else that's purely direct injection. The only thing you can really do is some kind of induction service every so often (70k-80k miles? definitely before 100k)

 

A number of disgruntled enthusiasts have been posting multiple videos on YouTube complaining about a so-called "epidemic" of blown head gaskets on Hurricane I-6 engines.

Are these just the ravings of people already angry with STLA who have multiple axes to grind?...or...is there actually a nugget of truth hidden in all the bile and acrimony?

 

One has to be

I am trying to be careful on how to interpret those these days. On the internet, “everything“ is news and I accept that nothing perfect exist in an imperfect world. While quality should be job one, some people’s expectations seem unrealistic.

 

Should have called it a "Hemicane"...

 

Should have called it a "Hemicane"...

Maybe a little less cute - "Hurricane Turbo 6 with HEMI head" .

 

I blame the lack of science and logic education in primary schools, coupled with the consumerist "if we teach logic and science, people won't buy / go to church" disincentive to make schools better. (Data shows that race also plays a huge part in school defunding but dang, that's politicized; and many schools don't use funds well anyway, in this area at least.)

(Some states' solution seems to be removing science education and replacing it with Christian Bible studies. I somehow don't see that helping, but then I've always believed religion is fine if you spend some time thinking about it rather than just doing what the priest/minister/imam/rebbe says. Of course, I would say that/)

Keep in mind when I say science isn't really taught, I mean the scientific method, not a bunch of trivia they dug up using it. There are graduate students who don't know how science actually works. Most Americans don't know how science works, thinking it's done by fashion or by committees of unelected bureaucrats. And in fairness abuses of the systems set up to make science work have played right into that, along with the insane triumph of "publish-or-perish-and-you-can-only-publish-positive-results." But sooner or later, it seems the science community, no matter what the discipline, always self-corrects.

When Edison released his data on strange doings wtihin electric lamps to the scientific journals, many called him a fraud. Some actually did the experiments and as a result we have diodes and vacuum tubes today; what he actually did was create a primitive diode, but he did not have the theoretical background to know it (nor did anyone else at that time!). Eventually other discoveries caught up and the Edison Effect bulb, which he didn't name, became vacuum tubes, which gave way to transistors. But that's science self-correcting. (It's an old example from when "science" was ¾ rich guys sitting around in armchairs making theories, so does it count? I don't know but it's an interesting anecdote. At that point, by the way, Tesla was still in school; some people like to give Tesla credit for Edison inventions which occurred while Tesla was in school and not doing much of anything else.)

The scientific method is too important to be shoved aside for freakin’ trivia or calculus or, God help us, Bible studies. I do believe in religious education, don't get me wrong, but in public schools where every school has a mix of people of different religions? Ouch.

(Side note: a Turkish friend once surprised me with his knowledge of non-Muslim religions. He said, “Our religious education is excellent. We learn about every other religion and how they're inferior to Islam.” He was smiling when he said it, but ... well, America’s a melting pot. It's long been our strength. Thomas Edison’s father was Canadian... if he’s stayed in Canada, perhaps Canada would have General Electric and all the industries around it.)

Moderators, feel free to delete this entire post if you feel it's over the line. I tried to stay general.

 

I blame the lack of science and logic education in primary schools, coupled with the consumerist "if we teach logic and science, people won't buy / go to church" disincentive to make schools better. (Data shows that race also plays a huge part in school defunding but dang, that's politicized; and many schools don't use funds well anyway, in this area at least.)

(Some states' solution seems to be removing science education and replacing it with Christian Bible studies. I somehow don't see that helping, but then I've always believed religion is fine if you spend some time thinking about it rather than just doing what the priest/minister/imam/rebbe says. Of course, I would say that/)

Keep in mind when I say science isn't really taught, I mean the scientific method, not a bunch of trivia they dug up using it. There are graduate students who don't know how science actually works. Most Americans don't know how science works, thinking it's done by fashion or by committees of unelected bureaucrats. And in fairness abuses of the systems set up to make science work have played right into that, along with the insane triumph of "publish-or-perish-and-you-can-only-publish-positive-results." But sooner or later, it seems the science community, no matter what the discipline, always self-corrects.

When Edison released his data on strange doings wtihin electric lamps to the scientific journals, many called him a fraud. Some actually did the experiments and as a result we have diodes and vacuum tubes today; what he actually did was create a primitive diode, but he did not have the theoretical background to know it (nor did anyone else at that time!). Eventually other discoveries caught up and the Edison Effect bulb, which he didn't name, became vacuum tubes, which gave way to transistors. But that's science self-correcting. (It's an old example from when "science" was ¾ rich guys sitting around in armchairs making theories, so does it count? I don't know but it's an interesting anecdote. At that point, by the way, Tesla was still in school; some people like to give Tesla credit for Edison inventions which occurred while Tesla was in school and not doing much of anything else.)

The scientific method is too important to be shoved aside for freakin’ trivia or calculus or, God help us, Bible studies. I do believe in religious education, don't get me wrong, but in public schools where every school has a mix of people of different religions? Ouch.

(Side note: a Turkish friend once surprised me with his knowledge of non-Muslim religions. He said, “Our religious education is excellent. We learn about every other religion and how they're inferior to Islam.” He was smiling when he said it, but ... well, America’s a melting pot. It's long been our strength. Thomas Edison’s father was Canadian... if he’s stayed in Canada, perhaps Canada would have General Electric and all the industries around it.)

Moderators, feel free to delete this entire post if you feel it's over the line. I tried to stay general.

The scientific method requires unlimited questioning of theories.

Unfortunately, we have become so polarized that when one side or the other questions something it usually results in efforts to silence or denigrate the questioner. There is very little logical debate.

 

And the reason this is happening isn't a fluke. There's mainly three reasons for this. I'm not going into what those reasons are, but I will say it's part of a long term plan that has been brewing for 70 plus years.

 

Well, given a limited amount of time to advertise, lead with either your strongest foot or anything to differentiate yourself. There was a tti6 in the works. Strong. True. But no hellcat. No demon. Maybe super rad when pushed to the limits with no warranty. But what new and and exciting/contraversial? Push the top of the line, not yet ready for prime time Banshee. Honestly, given the same setup and opportunity, what would you use your advertising dollars on?

 

I have heard of a few very early check engine lights in these but nothing else. Only time will tell. Jeeps old 4.0 liter straight six had a pretty good record for reliability but there’s no comparison here. However as I said I’d have preferred it to be larger in displacement and normally aspirated. 6 liters like a Cummins and all cast iron please. Ever have a spark plug seize in the alu head of a modern engine? Not fun. Also cast iron is far more tolerant of overheat damage than alu is. This is supposed to be an HD truck engine. Like a diesel but using gas for fuel.

 

I know it's just a matter of personal opinion about the direct injection engines, but KIA has had a multitude of problems with their GDI engines. The ONLY way to prevent the carbon build up on the valves is to use a treatment every so many miles. My son has a Soul with the 2.0 GDI engine that was using about two quarts of oil every 5,000 miles. I used a Berryman Cleaner and it white smoked like a blown head gasket for a couple of miles after I used it, but it seems to have worked pretty well. In 4,700 miles since the procedure, it's only used about a quart of oil. BIG improvement IMHO, but I'm going to do it again at the next oil change which MIGHT be this weekend, depending on the weather. Keep in mind that the Hurricane engine has 4 valves per cylinder and KIA only has two. The interval frequencies might need to be every 40-50,000 miles because there's twice as many valves. IDK, just throwing an idea out there. Even if I had the money to buy a Jeep with the Hurricane engine, right now, I'd have to take a hard pass because it hasn't been out long enough to get all of the kinks and bugs worked out for my taste.

 

Rather than telling people what to believe, education should be telling people how to analyze what is presented to them. It’s obvious analytical skills are missing for much of the population.

 

We were taught to prove what was presented to us, as part of the assignment, from middle school right up to grad school. Even in grad school, we were given copies of Excel, MathCad and another spreadsheet, and all three gave slightly different results. We were made to delve into how they did the calculation, so as to understand how we might not get the precise answer, or a consistent one, with different tools. Most people just accept that the tool is correct, and they go with the answer. Even the simpler assignments made us question, is this the right order of magnitude? Does the answer fall within an expected range? If not, why not?
But that is lacking in many educational systems.

 

A number of disgruntled enthusiasts have been posting multiple videos on YouTube complaining about a so-called "epidemic" of blown head gaskets on Hurricane I-6 engines.

Are these just the ravings of people already angry with STLA who have multiple axes to grind?...or...is there actually a nugget of truth hidden in all the bile and acrimony?

That's odd, I haven't seen anything about headgaskets at all on the forums.

What about carbon build up in this direct injected engine? I saw some concerns because port injection is missing?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15342328/explained-why-some-engines-have-both-port-and-direct-injection/#

It's going to have the same carbon buildup issue as everything else that's purely direct injection. The only thing you can really do is some kind of induction service every so often (70k-80k miles? definitely before 100k)

Carbon buildup is much less of an issue than it used to be. We've come a long way since those first DI engines - I had to get my BMW N54 engine walnut blasted at 60k miles. People really don't do that anymore. I just saw a 120k mi BMW B58 motor opened up recently at it was dirty but not anywhere near what my N54 engine was at half the miles.

 

Ideology not analytic skills are taught in school. Some young folks I have interacted with don't even know which political party was involved in the starting of and escalation of the Vietnam war. I told them watch the Ken Burns series on this, and read McNamara's book on it, and learn.

 

Most people don't know that the Vietnam war was a resource war, plain and simple, in disguise. Oil and natural gas access.

 

Critical thinking skills are definitely on the endangered list.

If the Hurricane does actually wind up in the Durango Pursuit within a couple of months, we'll learn in due time if they hold up in police service.

One amusing complaint I noticed, here and yonder (actually, just yonder), was the blasted thing has no engine oil dipstick. It's almost like they don't trust us with anything nice.

When it comes to this fancy new engine, I'd suggest a durability betting pool, but that's not something us elitist liberals are supposed to do.

 

As most conflicts are.

 

Re: Dave Z

Exactly! After the Roman destruction of the Second Temple in 70 A.D., Judaism restructured. Rabbi Judah ha Nasi, the editor of the Mishna, ruled that in order for one to remain Jewish, all sons had to be taught how to read the Torah and Talmud. (Daughters didn't count). The result was that Judaism decoupled from place and became a portable religion. This focus on literacy and rules converted Jews from being farmers to urban specialists. If that hadn't happened, Jews would have become lost to history, or as happened, converted to Christianity and Islam and remained in place, becoming today's Palestinians. Christianity retained the sacrifice part of Judaism, which looped it into obsession with theology. Frankly, rule-based Judaism and Islam are much more closely related to each other than to Christianity, which has a totally transcendent other as a God, leaving it untestable, because the numinous/immanent barrier can't, by definition, be crossed.

 

Well... look into the “Palestinians” and you'll find most of them are from, and were ejected by, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon, but yes WRT Judaism. I won't talk about Christianity in public for obvious reasons... including it not being a single movement. There are many many many Christians who reject the non-Jesus parts.

Muslims and Jews do have a lot in common and used to get along very well. I think if Iran disappeared tomorrow, we'd be best buds. 'Course then Hamas and Jezbollah wouldn't have a steady supply of money and weapons.

 

I actually had middle school teachers who properly explained why the US is not a democracy but a republic. I cringe every time I hear a politician say “we must protect our democracy” as I’m betting they and most of the people they’re talking to could not explain the difference.

 

Man, has this thread going miles off its subject. Let us return to the subject of it.

Sadly though, the new I-6 is not a V-8 so an ego thing. The I-6 is overstressed and too complicated with 2 turbos. The only other option is diesels but they have their own expensive maintenance and other issues. I think that Ford and Chevy will take customers from Ram if continue to offer V-8's and if build more models with cheaper MSRP's.

 

Man, has this thread going miles off its subject. Let us return to the subject of it.

Sadly though, the new I-6 is not a V-8 so an ego thing. The I-6 is overstressed and too complicated with 2 turbos. The only other option is diesels but they have their own expensive maintenance and other issues. I think that Ford and Chevy will take customers from Ram if continue to offer V-8's and if build more models with cheaper MSRP's.

The Hurricane is not even in the top 10 in hp/liter. Others have 2 turbos and management of a turbo is not new tech. Having each turbo service three cylinders only keeps away from a lot of turbo delay.

 

The Willys Hurricane goes back to the Go-Devil days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willys_Hurricane_engine

My dad had a Tornado OHC-6 in his '64 Wagoneer. Quite an advanced engine at the time. The only other domestic OHC-6 in the '60's was in the Pontiac.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Tornado_engine

Pontiac's Fantastic Six

The 4.0L PowerTech had a reputation as torquey & bullet-proof. All had EFI & all were H.O. (high output).

https://www.allpar.com/threads/jeep’s-4-0-liter-powertech-straight-six-engine.229895/

The new twin-turbo 6 is an innovative piece. A separate cooling system for the turbos & intercooler (charge air cooler). It is a stroker, which is nice to see after years of over-square cylinders.

 

The 392 was “overstressed” given that the 426 Hemi was around 26 cid bigger AND produced only 370 net horsepower vs 485 hp from the 392. Yet I'll bet the 392 was more durable and reliable. Do we even want to talk Hellcat? 808 horsepower from a smaller engine?

“Overstressed” assumes the design and materials are not up to the task. If they are, and they seem to be, it is not overstressed, it is properly engineered as a system.