That seems awfully recycled. We KNOW it's based on the Ram, and I'll swear I've seen those pics.

 

Its the black cladding.

 

This is the 1st shots of the Wagoneer that doesnt look like a RAM. Other shots have been of the Grand Cherokee.

 

Notice the six lug rims, this is definitely new Ram based SUV.

 

My guess, 2022MY.

 

Having it on a fullsize truck body is the wrong way to go.

 

Then let's hear your opinion on what the appropriate platform for this vehicle would be.

 

Remember that there's a unibody 3-row Grand Cherokee coming and that will bridge the gap between GC and GW. For a utility vehicle of the size of Grand Wagoneer, body-on-frame is the most appropriate construction method. Towing is going to be a big customer requirement for this, and with a BoF construction it's easier to reach a higher towing rating.

The big disadvantages of BoF are poor cornering (high center of gravity) and high fuel consumption (additional weight). I'll say the first doesn't matter very much in a vehicle like GW, and the second can be addressed with hybrid-electric assistance: FCA knows customers really want a big Jeep, but it also knows that CAFE hasn't gone away either - electrification is how it will square that circle.

 

It may square the circle, but it's going to have to be better then what's offered on Rams now.

 

A two-box SUV will have better aerodynamics than a pickup: that open bed is a real drag on the vehicle. GW will also come with the next generation of "eTorque" systems, more like Pacifica's on-transmission motor than the 1500's BSG system. Doing that allows faster operating speeds - 1500's was designed primarily to get the vehicle moving under heavy load, something that's really useful for a pickup truck; a passenger vehicle like Wagoneer would need to use a different approach, including a pure-EV mode that could run at street speeds.

 

I just want it built.
I know there have been a few issues with the 3.0 diesel in the past, but I would still have to put it in strong consideration. A full size SUV getting around 30mpg sounds great. I'm basing that on the current Ram mileage. That's better mileage than my current Town and Country. I'm also wondering what kind of mileage the 3.0 straight 6 will get. Somewhere between the 5.7 and little diesel.

 

When will there be more shots

 

When the auto papparazzi take the photos, or FCA unveils.

 

About 20 years too late...better late than never I guess? Should be a RAM branded product though....

 

Wouldnt make sense as a Ram, not the way the Ram brand is looking to go.

 

There's supposed to be a new Durango based on this. They almost have to do this to justify the investment.

 

First generation Durango was body on frame. Wasn't the Aspen body on frame? From what I remember, the packaging for those vehicles was pretty bad though. Packaging in Grand Wagoneer will be fantastic. This is the vehicle I've been nearly a decade for.

Grand Wagoneer will be a premium product (starting in the 50s) that competes with Tahoe/Escalade/Expedition/Navigator.

 

First gen Durango was based on Dakota. Second gen Dakota/Aspen was sort of Ram based but still really midsize.

 

I want to see what this looks like without the black cladding for my own curiosity. I bet it's a cobbled together mess of a mule. Those look like current Grand Cherokee headlights and taillights

 

As the owner of 2 grand Cherokees (gen 1 and gen 3) this addresses the often heard complaint, they are too small for what they cost. I have no reservations about a body on frame design, in fact I prefer it. Looks to be about the size of a Tahoe. I like the idea, prob would not buy due to high cost, unless I buy used in the future. Still liking my 2 old ones....

 

Also, I have read that body-on-frame vehicles tend to be better off-roaders, as they withstand twisting forces better, have more resistant to dirt, mud, snow, and stones, since they're typically mounted higher than unibody vehicles.

so, I hope they turn it to a rugged SUV

 

If it made sense to them to stretch the unibody platform of the Grand WK-II they would have, the switch to the 1500 Ram platform makes sense because they can offer a higher tow limit which is a selling feature. And keep in mind the original Wagoneer was body on frame and shared its frame and mechanicals with the Jeep SJ full size pick ups.

 

I'm just excited to see new product to keep all plants busy.

Hopefully the Wagoneer Twins are what Sergio wanted.

If I were FCA I'd leave some Easter eggs to honor Sergio in the Twins. After all it was Sergio pushing them.

 

Perhaps have a black cloth interior option, and call it the black sweater edition?

 

I think it being a full-sized BOF vehicle is exactly the right decision and will fill a gap in the Mopar lineup we've been hoping to see filled since the 90's. I don't necessarily think there needs to be a Ram version. Let Jeep be the SUV brand; Ram is for pickups and vans. I'm in Texas so understand I'm a bit biased on the subject, but Suburbans, Tahoes, and Expeditions and their respective derivative luxury models sell very well here. The economy is booming here. The market for these trucks will be strong, if not where you live, where I do!

 

I've been seeing a lot of these Telluride or whatever the Hyundai/ Kia 7 passengers are on the streets of my town. I am concerned with these upcoming bigger FCA SUVs that they will be at the premium level. Lots of families that are ditching the soccer mom vans for full sized
SUVs are not looking to spend almost 100k. Personally I'm saving up as we speak for when my wifes WKII is up for replacement in 2021, and hope it will be a grand wagoneer.

 

I've been seeing a lot of these Telluride or whatever the Hyundai/ Kia 7 passengers are on the streets of my town. I am concerned with these upcoming bigger FCA SUVs that they will be at the premium level. Lots of families that are ditching the soccer mom vans for full sized
SUVs are not looking to spend almost 100k. Personally I'm saving up as we speak for when my wifes WKII is up for replacement in 2021, and hope it will be a grand wagoneer.

FCA has a large hole in their lineup here. Currently, the max profit guys have decided that filling in that hole with a Chrysler or a Dodge just doesn't qualify for their vision of max profit. Maybe Tavares will undo this line of thinking.

 

Here's a classic with exactly the right kind of power. God I love to own this.
1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer with a Supercharged Hellcat V8 – Engine Swap Depot (at https://engineswapdepot.com/?p=49283 )

 

One huge problem with having only Jeep versions is whether they have any plans to compete against the Tahoe for police sales.
Here in Texas the Tahoe has become the vehicle of choice. Any Chargers the State Troopers have are the older body.

The same long standing biased perceptions that are seen again and again. Every automaker has a model or nameplate that isn't thought of as highly as their others.
1. Jeep usually are, and are thought of as costing more
2. Even if they are the same underneath, a Ram version will probably be thought of as more dependable than a Jeep version

Any department that buys Jeep over Chevrolet will be lambasted as wasting money.
Just as back in the day if a sheriff drove a Mercury rather than a Ford.
Ram versus Chevy won't be much of an argument.

 

The Jeeps aren’t going to be the only BoF SUVs. Durango will share the platform and likely be cheaper.

 

Also, I have read that body-on-frame vehicles tend to be better off-roaders, as they withstand twisting forces better, have more resistant to dirt, mud, snow, and stones, since they're typically mounted higher than unibody vehicles.

Interesting... given that the legendary XJ Cherokee was unibody. BOF does allow for more “top hat” games which is why it’s apparently the way forward for electric cars. Three companies are now doing the skateboard+top hat game that seems to me little different from BOF.

Durango was indeed always midsize. Jeep has of course done full-size but not for ages — the Wagoneer was the first, last, and only, I believe.

The Power Wagon is truly impressive. I'm starting to think Wagoneer will be Rebel based and Grand Wagoneer will be Power Wagon based. But that's much more expensive than doing just one.

Police market would be good but... who knows how it'll work out.

Full size SUVs are often used no different than minivans. It's like Jeeps, yes, they can go offroad, but only a small percentage of buyers take 'em there. A full size FWD based CUV should sell just fine. It in theory should have better economy/power blend than a “real” SUV.

 

Interesting... given that the legendary XJ Cherokee was unibody. BOF does allow for more “top hat” games which is why it’s apparently the way forward for electric cars. Three companies are now doing the skateboard+top hat game that seems to me little different from BOF.

Top hat height/center of gravity is why I am surprised Tahoe is so popular for law enforcement use. I would think handling suffers.
The XJ due in part from the benefits of unibody and low roof height was praised (for that time period) on its handling.

 

Grand won't be Power Wagon based, as it's on a 2500 HD chassis.

 

Unless, and this is where I was going, they do a 1500 and a 2500 version. It would surprise everyone and not be quite as expensive as it seems, since the 1500 and 2500 do share a certain number of attachment points. But it would also cost more and take more time, so who knows? Where I have to stop and say “I’m probably wrong” is the “why would anyone want a Wagoneer HD” ... but then I remember the horse-trailer-pullers, a bigger market than you'd think...and I don't think the 2500 class trucks count towards CAFE.

 

One huge problem with having only Jeep versions is whether they have any plans to compete against the Tahoe for police sales.
Here in Texas the Tahoe has become the vehicle of choice. Any Chargers the State Troopers have are the older body.

The same long standing biased perceptions that are seen again and again. Every automaker has a model or nameplate that isn't thought of as highly as their others.
1. Jeep usually are, and are thought of as costing more
2. Even if they are the same underneath, a Ram version will probably be thought of as more dependable than a Jeep version

Any department that buys Jeep over Chevrolet will be lambasted as wasting money.
Just as back in the day if a sheriff drove a Mercury rather than a Ford.
Ram versus Chevy won't be much of an argument.

Has FCA ever offered a specially equipped Journey for police / first responder use? Seeing that the tooling and such have been paid off eons ago, it would seem FCA could offer this at a really low price.

 

Only the Durango, bu tthe Journey would make sense except no V8.