Apples to Oranges?

 

Absolutely. But you'd probably be surprised how many buyers with extra cash and looking for an off-road toy with a warranty will cross-shop the two.

 

When in doubt, throttle out.

 

I watched that a few weeks ago. Honestly, I was surprised that the Raptor even did that well. It's big, wide, heavy, and has the worst AT tires ever made for sloppy conditions.

 

Too bad they didn't include the Powerwagon

 

Yup, Wrangler is that good.

Love how the Jeep just crawled over that muddy, rutted section where the Raptor ran out of articulation and got stuck.

If Jeep did little to JK besides add the 8-speed and extract another 2-3 MPG, it would be able to sell another 100,000 units/year.

 

Even at current specs the plant is producing at max capacity running flat out. Hence the size of the investment needed so that they CAN sell another 100k units/year!

 

Geez, I guess it is what you consider Off-Roading.... even considering it a contest for trail riding. Now desert racing OK yeah the giant truck with 6.4 liter engine... :/ I don't know what the first guy was smoking.

 

If the new JL can improve to 20/25/22 I'd seriously consider adding one to my driveway. I really hope that the diesel option is there..... should be pretty close to the Ecodiesel Ram if they did all of that aero work like expected.

 

Geez, I guess it is what you consider Off-Roading.... even considering it a contest for trail riding. Now desert racing OK yeah the giant truck with 6.4 liter engine... :/ I don't know what the first guy was smoking.

Keep in mind that trail was about a 5-6 out of 10 in terms of difficulty and, like they said, it wasn't their Jeep so they couldn't afford to scratch it.

Trails like that are PACKED with Jeeps on a regular summer weekend around here, and there's no way a Raptor would even get past the first 1/2 mile.

IDK how packed the desert is with racing Raptors on a regular weekend. But I know this: while a Raptor will not make it through most Jeep trails, most Jeeps can make it through the desert. Maybe not as fast, but they can make it. In fact, one of the things any Jeep lover will tell you is how a Jeep forces them to slow down and appreciate having fun without a need to speed.

Many young parents are finding out that a day on the trail in a Jeep is the best type of bonding they can do with their children.

 

Fluff piece,just entertainment. Nothing is really established here. Both good vehicles.

 

Yup, Wrangler is that good.

Love how the Jeep just crawled over that muddy, rutted section where the Raptor ran out of articulation and got stuck.

If Jeep did little to JK besides add the 8-speed and extract another 2-3 MPG, it would be able to sell another 100,000 units/year.

And if they did that, added truck and solid roof variants, they could probably get another 75,000-100,000 add'l.

 

If the new JL can improve to 20/25/22 I'd seriously consider adding one to my driveway. I really hope that the diesel option is there..... should be pretty close to the Ecodiesel Ram if they did all of that aero work like expected.

Considering they are at 17/21/18 right now, throw in a PUG, an 8-speed, and a little aero work, and I bet they can hit those numbers even before the diesel.

 

The 8 speed doesnt improve city mileage much at all so I'm only expecting 1, maybe 2 mpg city. Highway should get a big jump at least 4mpg. Based upon the jump in the Charger with the 5a/3.6 (18/27/21) and the 8a/3.6 19/31/23)

 

AEV brute with the 6.4 should have been used. I am sure that
would have been the nail in the blue ovals coffin

 

Do we know anything else about a diesel and JL?

 

Nothing but educated guesses.

 

I have a sadness reading this because it is a thread that Norm would be at his best.

 

We'd all be rehashing the old info since nothing new has been learned in quite a while.
Though Norm would point out that the only thing they need to do to sell more Wranglers is increase capacity. They don't have to change anything. New powertrain and any other changes are icing on the cake.

 

The 8spd won't fit the 2dr, unless they move the whole nose forward and increase the wheelbase, which really wouldn't be bad thing, except maybe a slight decrease in break-over angle.

 

They will not move the nose forward. From Bob's article, the front of the transmission is a hard point in the design and doesn't move. The likely changes are the transfer case will be made shorter and the driveshaft modified to get the 8 speed to fit. No wheelbase change necessary.

 

One thing that comes to mind is the changes to the 8speed that jeepers will want. IE: a dipstick and a metal pan. The current 8 speed as it is uses a composit pan with the filter built into it (costs around $600)and no means for a dipstick or tube. So I'd imagine a different valve body would have to be used to mount the filter to, and a completely different case to accept a dipstick tube.

 

I don't see all that coming. Pan possibly could change or just protection for the pan. But the dipstick will probably not make a comeback.

 

Breaking news! Jeep will fit the new 9 speed transmission, mounted longitudinally, with the differential being the mounting point for the transfer case. It is expected to go at least 3 days between breakdowns. /sarcasm off.

 

Stop making stuff up, they are going to do it like Nissan GT-R and mount the transmission in the rear and send it back to the front for the front wheels.....

 

Except the JJ had the old three-speed TorqueFlite automatic transaxle.

 

I would be sure that whatever happens, they will not use the Mercedes five speed any more. There are other wide-range automatics for sale and they could conceivably use a completely different automatic if they needed to.

 

I've seen a youtube video of a convention propshaft with U-joints on either end, demonstrating the differences in velocities that they speak about in the link. I have NOT seen one of a broken back propshaft and the article was just complex enough that I haven't captured the concept fully in my head, so I think I need to do a youtube search of similar video for broken back propshafts.

 

For the younger crowd around here, 1959/60 Chevy had a two piece driveline and vibration was a major issue. The middle bearing height had to be set with a protractor level to compromise the driveline angles. There was no way to have parallel joint surfaces so you had to get the best you could to "minimize" vibration. Bob talks about the acceleration/deceleration as you rotate the shaft. If the angles are not correct and the joints not working as one, it can feel like the whole car is coming apart. Get the joints "Out of phase" and you can literally tear it apart. Once worked on a 50's era Stove bolt bus that had phasing problems that could not get up to 50mph. Fixed the phasing and it would exceed 70. Not bad for a 216 splash oiler.

 

Good video showing the concepts and what happens when its NOT set up correctly with the typical double Cardan propshaft.

Still looking for a Demo of a broken back propshaft, I think that is the one with the double cardan at the front and a single cardan at the opposite side.

If you've ever used a universal joint on the end of an extension of a socket wrench, you would have experienced what will happen when you put too much of an angle on the driveshaft. Its in this video at 6:25, which shows something I've heard Bob say many times, you put to much angle on the driveshafts they'll destroy themselves.

Oh, this Thompson CV Joint looks awesome, but judging by appearances its big drawback is cost, to expensive for production line vehicles.

 

Ju

Ju$t copy of a cornay joint.

 

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-shaft/Geometry_small.jpg
Above image s&ows a broken bck design sorry no video. Therption of its operation.e is writtenvdescri