[Tony K]

Grecale-Tonale ...Italians sure don't know how to pick names that roll off the English vernacular.
These names sound ugly when spoken by people who don't know Italian "linguistics".

It they sound like Gre-Kale and Toe-Nail in English.

Maybe that's a function of knowing your market. I'll hazard a bet that people who buy Italian cars are less likely to have this problem, and the names are an asset. I'd bet the war generation, if they spent any time in the Italian peninsula in WW2, could probably hazard a guess and be close.

 

[KrisW]

Not many of the WW2 generation left, now, unfortunately.

Maybe I think too highly of Americans, but if a nation can deal with Connecticut’s surplus C, Arkansas (“that doesn’t rhyme with your Kansas”) and the various ways of saying Louisville (MS, KY), all the names that kept their foreign pronunciation like Schenectady, NY (Dutch), Duchesne, UT (French), La Jolla CA (Spanish) and ones that didn’t like Boise, ID and Detroit, MI (both French); then something like “Grecale” or “Tonale” is easy - just sound every letter!

And as the last words, can I just add... Willys! Sebring!

 

[M.O.D.]

why would they make same size (wheelbase 3,004 mm) car as Levante is now? If this appears to be too same kind of car as Stelvio, it will eat Alfa sales. The whole Maserati push kills Alfa slowly.

Have to disagree.

i don't believe in sales cannibalisation.

It actually has been an issue at FCA, with products canned because supposedly cannibalising sales of others in same segment with same underpinnings.

Reality is actually quite the opposite.

multiply the offerings and sales will be boosted.

Look at VW for reference.
plenty of copycat cars, sales going strong.

 

[AmbassadorSST]

Not many of the WW2 generation left, now, unfortunately.

Maybe I think too highly of Americans, but if a nation can deal with Connecticut’s surplus C, Arkansas (“that doesn’t rhyme with your Kansas”) and the various ways of saying Louisville (MS, KY), all the names that kept their foreign pronunciation like Schenectady, NY (Dutch), Duchesne, UT (French), La Jolla CA (Spanish) and ones that didn’t like Boise, ID and Detroit, MI (both French); then something like “Grecale” or “Tonale” is easy - just sound every letter!

And as the last words, can I just add... Willys! Sebring!

Those cities you mentioned have been in the American English lexicon for more than a century and a half in most cases. People know how to pronounce those names because everyone pronounces them that way.

Another example of pronouncing a name the way it sounds is the vice presidential nominee name...Kamala.
Even though it's pronounced Comma-La, most people pronounce her name Ca-Ma-La.
That Tonale-Grecale are not everyday names, most people will pronounce those names the way they are written or with words that are similar...like Toenail and Greek Kale.

 

[Tony K]

Not many of the WW2 generation left, now, unfortunately.

Maybe I think too highly of Americans, but if a nation can deal with Connecticut’s surplus C, Arkansas (“that doesn’t rhyme with your Kansas”) and the various ways of saying Louisville (MS, KY), all the names that kept their foreign pronunciation like Schenectady, NY (Dutch), Duchesne, UT (French), La Jolla CA (Spanish) and ones that didn’t like Boise, ID and Detroit, MI (both French); then something like “Grecale” or “Tonale” is easy - just sound every letter!

And as the last words, can I just add... Willys! Sebring!

Americanized...Vincennes, IN; Lima, OH; Cairo, IL; but...Lafayette pronounced la-FAY-et in Alabama and Arkansas, but ~LAF-ee-ET/Lah-fee-ET in in Louisiana and Indiana (both French territories originally). Oh, and Russiaville, IN pronounced ROOshiaville. Who knew, right?

Those cities you mentioned have been in the American English lexicon for more than a century and a half in most cases. People know how to pronounce those names because everyone pronounces them that way.

Another example of pronouncing a name the way it sounds is the vice presidential nominee name...Kamala.
Even though it's pronounced Comma-La, most people pronounce her name Ca-Ma-La.
That Tonale-Grecale are not everyday names, most people will pronounce those names the way they are written or with words that are similar...like Toenail and Greek Kale.

And I still submit that it's not all that relevant to the people who would buy them. In fact, it may make them even more desirable to the folks buying them for snob appeal alone. Even so, how many American's still mispronounce Porsche? How many people would know how to pronounce Countache if the auto media didn't tell us?

 

[KrisW]

Despite the famous Shakespeare play and the NATO Phonetic Alphabet, every American I’ve heard talking about cars has managed to call it “Al-fa ro-MAY-oh” not “Al-fa ROH-mee-oh”. There is hope!

“Countach” was a funny one, as Italians also had to figure out how to pronounce it (seeing that -ch, Italians would be tempted to use a K sound at the end, but it should be sh).

The irony of all of this discussion is that it’s English that has the most insane pronunciation scheme of any language. You can learn to pronounce Italian in a day, German in two days and Korean in about three hours. Even the Central and Eastern European languages that we think are “hard” are all phonetically spelled and you can learn the pronunciation in a day or two*. English? You will never finish learning how to pronounce English. You think you’re a native, educated speaker, and suddenly a word like “quinoa” starts appearing on menus to mess with your head!

__
* Okay, Czech takes about five years; but four years, eleven months and twenty-nine days of that is learning to pronounce ř properly!

 

[T_690]

@KrisW

Most Slavic languages have one sign one letter rule. But if it's Cyrillic i.e. azbuka than for who knows what reason some languages like Russian are using alphabet for English speakers instead of one voice one letter rule. For example Russian has 3 e letters which are all e in English alphabet but should be e, je and jo. For example it's not Fedor Emelianenko. It's Fjodor Jemeljanenko.

 

[Tony K]

The irony of all of this discussion is that it’s English that has the most insane pronunciation scheme of any language. You can learn to pronounce Italian in a day, German in two days and Korean in about three hours. Even the Central and Eastern European languages that we think are “hard” are all phonetically spelled and you can learn the pronunciation in a day or two*. English? You will never finish learning how to pronounce English. You think you’re a native, educated speaker, and suddenly a word like “quinoa” starts appearing on menus to mess with your head!

Sure, but only if you only every speak "Hochdeutsch" in standard form. Actually, no, not even at that. You will never really LEARN to speak German properly in two days, unless you don't mind sounding like a foreigner. It really is harder to speak than English because of the umlaut and nevermind the variability of pronunciation of -ch in words like "milch" across Germany. I've been corrected on that one, because in Mainz, it's "milsch" and in Regensburg, it's "milx" like "Bach." I think way north it's actually pronounced "milk" and everywhere it comes from a "Molkerei." For those who don't get that, you don't pronounce -ch as -k in central and southern Germany. Linguists often use -x- to indicate High German -ch, which is closer to "h" sound with a leading "phlegm" a la Arabic. Cue the Jeff Dunham.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled Italiano.

 

[KrisW]

I did say pronounce German: speaking the language fluently is a different matter, and like every other language, that takes years.

I can speak German, and yes English speakers have trouble with the ich-laut, but it's only because it's not in the inventory of sounds in English (and as you say, regionally the Germans themselves don't agree). But it's not hard to make : say shhhh, now do it again with the tip of your tongue touching the bottom of your lower teeth. Now make that sound for every place you see ch after i or e and you're done. The other way to say ch, the ach-laut, is known in English as the ch in the Scottish pronunciation of the word "Loch" , and you use that sound everywhere you don't use the first version. That's the rule, and it's the only rule, and the only exceptions are for the English words that appear in modern German media. Compare that to the English rules for words ending in -gh!

@T_690 Yes, the Slavic languages using the Latin alphabet are really logical. I tried to learn Russian once, but it defeated me. The biggest pronunciation problem I had was "o": sometimes it's "a" sometimes it's "o", it's different for every word, and for some words nobody agrees what's right. I can still read Cyrillic slowly, but I'll usually be wrong somewhere, and I've forgotten everything of the language itself.

 

[pumadog]

Manche Rachen packen charmante Sprachen lachend.

 

[Deckard_Cain]

IMO, I think it says a lot about the arrogance of certain countries to expect brands from other countries to adopt names that conform to difficulty of said name being spelled in english. Maybe learn how to spell it? Learning a little bit about foreign languages never hurt anyone.

Ofcourse exceptions exist such as avoiding model names that mean something dirty in specific languages. Otherwise adapt to it. Everybody knows these brands are italian. Learn how to spell the freaking names.

 

[Tony K]

IMO, I think it says a lot about the arrogance of certain countries to expect brands from other countries to adopt names that conform to difficulty of said name being spelled in english. Maybe learn how to spell it? Learning a little bit about foreign languages never hurt anyone.

Ofcourse exceptions exist such as avoiding model names that mean something dirty in specific languages. Otherwise adapt to it. Everybody knows these brands are italian. Learn how to spell the freaking names.

Well, to be certain, it's pronunciation, not spelling, that is the issue in some of my fellow countrymen's eyes.

 

[patfromigh]

I find it helps a great deal to swear at the German cars in our fleet in German. I learned to swear in German from listening to my father swear. He learned the language when he stationed in Germany during the 1950s. He was thinking I wouldn't know what the words meant, but unfortunately as a teen, I apprenticed under German toolmakers who were more than glad to interpret and teach me a new language.

Now as far as the English language, I will use the name of the Fiat "120" concept to explain the difference between UK and American English. In Italian 120 is Centoventi, which is the formal name of the Fiat concept. In UK English it will be translated "One Hundred and Twenty or perhaps One Hundred, Twenty. Here in America we say Buck Twenty.

 

[Tony K]

I find it helps a great deal to swear at the German cars in our fleet in German. I learned to swear in German from listening to my father swear. He learned the language when he stationed in Germany during the 1950s. He was thinking I wouldn't know what the words meant, but unfortunately as a teen, I apprenticed under German toolmakers who were more than glad to interpret and teach me a new language.

Now as far as the English language, I will use the name of the Fiat "120" concept to explain the difference between UK and American English. In Italian 120 is Centoventi, which is the formal name of the Fiat concept. In UK English it will be translated "One Hundred and Twenty or perhaps One Hundred, Twenty. Here in America we say Buck Twenty.

Genau! Or just as likely "One Twenty." Well, unless you're me talking over a scratchy radio. Then it becomes a "One-Two-Zero, over."

 

[KrisW]

It’s always “One Hundred and Twenty” in British English. “One Hundred Twenty” is the score of a rugby match that has gone very badly for one team.

 

[Tony K]

Genau! Or just as likely "One Twenty." Well, unless you're me talking over a scratchy radio. Then it becomes a "One-Two-Zero, over."

To clarify, that's AmE.

 

[Dave Z]

Do you notice there are no photo references to 1940s era DeSotos on Allpar? It a conspiracy facilitated by FCA.

Plymouth and DeSoto Buyer's Guide, the 1940s (at https://www.allpar.com/old/buyers-guide/d-1940s.html )

DeSoto cars, 1928-1961, with specifications (at https://www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/desoto-cars.html )

Isn't that enough?

PS> Though I personally prefer:

 

[serpens]

Getting close to debut in November:

 

[Erik Latranyi]

The Grecale looks very much like a Stelvio.

Anyone who complains that PSA vehicles share too much are blind to this.

But this whole discussion about where the Grecale will compete proves one thing.....the luxury market is very diffused with vehicles from Alfa through Bentley all competing with each other in the minds of consumers. At these levels, the prices are not so important as the emotions of the vehicle are what sell it.

Just like the Grand Cherokee competes with more expensive Porsche and Range Rovers, the price does not always determine the competition.

 

[David S]

It’s always “One Hundred and Twenty” in British English. “One Hundred Twenty” is the score of a rugby match that has gone very badly for one team.

In standard American English the "and" should only go before the decimal place. Of course the English used to count like the Germans "four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie" and pronounce like Americans with a rhotic R.