[Mr. Fusion]

the interior is pretty dated now compared to other vehicles, but with some minor updates, it could have lasted a bit longer provided the safety regulations wouldn’t get in the way of that.

I stand by my statement. The current interior is better than some competitors. Others are better than Journey, but they're six years newer. The fact that it's not a hideous embarrassment in 2018 is just a testament to what a great job FCA did with the company-wide 2011 interior redesigns, and in my opinion the Journey was the best of those.

But about 50% of Journeys are sold with the still underwhelming 2.4 4 speed combo.

I happen to think that that powertrain is literally laughable, but clearly it's not a problem for a great number of customers, is it? Because all of those people actually bought the car. I guess that explains why slow-as-molasses cars like Subaru, Mazda, and every 4-cylinder Nissan can also sell in volume. You wouldn't find me anywhere near an underpowered car, but there's no accounting for taste...

 

[AmbassadorSST]

But about 50% of Journeys are sold with the still underwhelming 2.4 4 speed combo.

That just goes to show that as long as a car reliably cranks and is dependable, people don't care how fast it goes from 0-60, or how many gears it can row through in getting from Point A to Point B.

 

[Matthew]

The fact that people who should be rooting for Chrysler are being pessimistic before even seeing the new CUV says a lot. What reaction, then, can FCA expect from the general public?

Low morale is normally the result of poor decisions by those at the top. Allpar can keep deleting posts, blaming members and banning them for being “pessimistic”, or we can all acknowledge that a sequence of FCA actions and decisions have eroded the enthusiasm, the trust and the loyalty of long-time Chrysler customers on here.



Repositioning a brand is one of the most difficult, and rarely successful endeavors any organization can undertake.

It is always easier, cheaper and quicker to go back to a positioning you held before, like Acura is now trying to do by refocusing on Precision Crafted Performance, than it is to move into an entirely new space. Oldsmobile and Saturn died trying to become something different. Cadillac and Lincoln are still trying to find success in efforts that started 20 years ago to reposition themselves as credible alternatives to German luxury brands. Lexus has had mixed results doing the same. Jaguar has given up and is back to doing its own thing. For 15+ years Hyundai has been trying to position itself as Toyota’s equivalent with limited success. Fiat failed in N.A. precisely because consumers put it back in the same bucket they had 20 years prior.

The underlying issue is auto executives tend to underestimate —knowingly or unknowingly— the difficulties, the costs and the time commitments needed to overturn long-established, widely-held consumer perceptions. Subaru and Audi are the only two automakers that have successfully repositioned themselves in my lifetime.

Volvo may turn out to be another success story in the long-run. They are doing it by entering CUV segments while returning to their Scandinavian roots for safety, sublime design and fine craftsmanship. But Volvo is not giving up on cars. The launch of S90 signals Volvo‘s return to the use of the flagship sedan, which traditionally has served as a stake on the ground to claim a rightful presence in the premium category. This is important because a general issue with CUVs has been that they focus too much on family safety, utility and efficiency to generate the necessary levels of aspiration for an entire brand. Volvo now plans to use electrification to add to its well-known Scandinavian sensibilities, not to replace them.

IMO, Volvo provides a blueprint for Chrysler: leveraging 300 as its flagship sedan, and rebuilding through concerted CUV launches that embody Chrysler’s traditional American traits for size, comfort, road presence and power. In this vein, a bold design is a requirement, and electrification would be used to add power, not to provide efficient people-moving transportation.

But none of this appears to be in the cards, unfortunately.

I think much of the pessimism around here has very little to do with the products that are on the market, most notably the new ones, and ones that have gotten refreshes. I think it is that people are upset that the company is not being run on the product timeline that they want, with the product pipeline they want. I mean if you look at the Cherokee, you see a very stylish compelling vehicle with a very upscale feeling and interior especially as you step up the trim levels. (I traded my 2018 limited on a 2019 trail hawk elite because I got bit by the jeep bug) and I would say the interior feels very high class. They offer lots of tech and safety features that you can see in the Jeep's in the jeep line up the Ram's and the Pacifica. So to say they are doomed before the product comes out is not based in the reality of their products, or their ability to create stylish and compelling vehicles. I have plenty of hope for the vehicles that should be hitting the market from Chrysler and Dodge here soon. At the very least I think it is worth it to wait and see before you start ripping things apart that you have not seen yet, or predicting doom and gloom for a product that has not even hit the market.

 

[Zagnut27]

I think much of the pessimism around here has very little to do with the products that are on the market, most notably the new ones, and ones that have gotten refreshes. I think it is that people are upset that the company is not being run on the product timeline that they want, with the product pipeline they want. I mean if you look at the Cherokee, you see a very stylish compelling vehicle with a very upscale feeling and interior especially as you step up the trim levels. (I traded my 2018 limited on a 2019 trail hawk elite because I got bit by the jeep bug) and I would say the interior feels very high class. They offer lots of tech and safety features that you can see in the Jeep's in the jeep line up the Ram's and the Pacifica. So to say they are doomed before the product comes out is not based in the reality of their products, or their ability to create stylish and compelling vehicles. I have plenty of hope for the vehicles that should be hitting the market from Chrysler and Dodge here soon. At the very least I think it is worth it to wait and see before you start ripping things apart that you have not seen yet, or predicting doom and gloom for a product that has not even hit the market.

I don't believe the post was predicting "doom and gloom" as you put it, in fact it was a response to my question about the difficulties of repositioning a brand...and for the Chrysler brand it is very pertinent, especially given the fact that the Journey replacement will indeed be a Chrysler. @aldo90731 has a great deal of professional knowledge and experience in this area, so his input is very insightful. Chrysler will need to settle on a brand definition for moving forward, and which direction they ultimately choose will have a great bearing on success or failure down the road. Up to this point there has been no coherent messaging of what they wish the brand identity for Chrysler to be...we've heard "mainstream" and "people mover"...neither of which offers any degree of clarification. So currently, from what we know about the current product and what is coming, Chrysler seems to be the catch-all brand for all the vehicles that don't seem to fit any of the other brands...not exactly a well-defined brand strategy.

As far as the level of pessimism here, I do believe that it does indeed have to do with the current product as well as the lack of a firm official commitment from upper management to the Dodge and Chrysler brands. This has left some members here very disappointed and frustrated, and I can understand why. From my own point of view, I see the lack of sustained improvement in quality/reliability/customer experience as a recurring theme that desperately needs to be addressed. There has been limited evidence of improvement, but we need to see more before we can evaluate for success or failure. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until more evidence is presented via future customer survey results and via evaluation of the new product as it arrives, but others may feel differently or more passionately. It is still a free country, and they are certainly entitled to their views. We're not all going to view events in the same light, nor will we all have the same opinions for how to move forward.

 

[edvan]

I stand by my statement. The current interior is better than some competitors. Others are better than Journey, but they're six years newer. The fact that it's not a hideous embarrassment in 2018 is just a testament to what a great job FCA did with the company-wide 2011 interior redesigns, and in my opinion the Journey was the best of those.



I happen to think that that powertrain is literally laughable, but clearly it's not a problem for a great number of customers, is it? Because all of those people actually bought the car. I guess that explains why slow-as-molasses cars like Subaru, Mazda, and every 4-cylinder Nissan can also sell in volume. You wouldn't find me anywhere near an underpowered car, but there's no accounting for taste...

My wife only buys Subarus, right now she has an Outback which I can assure you is no slouch when it comes to power.

 

[Chris mopar]

How about mainstream Family with style and a lot of bang for the buck.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Having owned one since 2011, I don't feel the interior is lacking in materials at all. What it needs is a refresh of styling more than anything. Update the gauge cluster to get rid of the very late 00's style "pods". Just change it a little so a returning customer who's had one for 6 years doesn't walk in the showroom and see the exact same vehicle parked there.

As for the exterior, the only comment I've gotten on it from people is that it "looks kinda like a minivan". It does bear a bit too close of a resemblance to the front end of the Grand Caravan.

I agree with Ryan. They totally could have updated the front and rear clips without any other structural changes and made it look like a very different vehicle. Look at what slapping the SRT Charger front end on the Durango does to it. There's nothing wrong with keeping a model around for a while (look at the Lx cars) but at least there's been enough updates to some of the other models to keep them looking fresh.

As a buyer there is no way I would repeat buy the same car again if the model had no updates to at least make it look new. Frankly it's getting worrisome because my Journey is 7 years old already (and has been problematic) and Dodge/Chrysler literally has nothing for me to buy in that segment should I need to replace it.

 

[Mr. Fusion]

My wife only buys Subarus, right now she has an Outback which I can assure you is no slouch when it comes to power.

It just so happens that we have had Subarus in the family for decades; my mother had a 1987 GL wagon, and my stepfather has only driven Outbacks since the late 90's. The 2.5 in the Outback & Forester are certainly at parity with at least the base engines in the class, which are generally four-cylinder engines of 2.4 or 2.5 liter displacement. The Outback may not be "slow", but it's probably no better than mid-pack in terms of performance, which is fine. And at least you can still opt for the H6. But, every Subaru with a smaller engine is absolutely "slow".

I'm just mystified how a car company that used to specialize in small turbo-fours in their mainstream cars has ended up with a lineup full of lackluster naturally-aspirated engines (remind you of anyone else?!). After twenty-something years, they finally created a new turbo engine (2.4T used in the Ascent), but you certainly won't see that engine brought down into any smaller cars. They deprecated the old 2.5T that they had in the Forester. So now the only way to get a quick Subaru is to spend a lot of money on a boy-racer WRX that may not have the features or comfort or space that you want.

 

[patfromigh]

The four cylinder Journey absolutely trounces a number of its competitors for serious urban duty. In stoplight to stoplight running a predictable throttle response is much better than the press and guess I find with the Toyota Sienna. I have owned a four cylinder minivan, which was slooow. I'm sure if I drove a four cylinder Journey right after the 120,000 miles behind the wheel of my 100hp SWB Dodge Caravan, I would have thought the Journey was a rocket.

 

[redriderbob]

2019 Dodge Journey SE Gets Some Nice Upgrades:
Success Of The V6 Value Package Leads To More Standard Equipment...

2019 Dodge Journey SE Gets Some Nice Upgrades: - Mopar Insiders (at https://moparinsiders.com/2019-dodge-journey-se-gets-some-nice-upgrades/ )

 

[Moparian]

The Journey needs the updated Uconnect systems and a mild refresh probably would have done wonders with modern headlights and taillights(LED and smaller).

 

[mopar22]

The Journey needs the updated Uconnect systems and a mild refresh probably would have done wonders with modern headlights and taillights(LED and smaller).

No need when it's getting teh axe. The only reason it's still around is because it's making a ton of money. If you end up redoing just the lights and coding for uconnect they'd be wasting a ton of money

 

[aldo90731]

Amazon Alexa virtual assistance is making inroads at other automakers. Ford and VAG offer it across their products, Toyota and Lexus added it this year. BMW seems to be next.

Journey should offer an app to verbally do a grocery list while driving, control the HVAC, dial out more seamlessly than the existing archaic VR system, etc.

 

[DarkSky]

Alexa can't even understand what I'm saying half the time when I tell her to turn my living room lights on.

Imagine: "Alexa, add apples to my list." "Okay, searching for Apple iPhone devices."

However, I can imagine that would be a useful feature if the microphones could be positioned in a way that could improve voice recognition. And CarPlay would be nice too.