This really isn't a surprise. While the Lancia marque has a gloried past, it has been allowed to languish and no longer holds the cachet it once did. Sergio respects Lancia's heritage, but Alfa is more valuable than Lancia (since the US never really 'got' Lancia) and so is the beneficiary of the investment. Maserati didn't need rehabilitation like Alfa and Lancia do, it just needed more product - which it got, on the cheap - and sales have soared.

Let's hope Alfa returns in as big a way so that perhaps Lancia can be properly reborn again some day as well. Just not right now.

 

This really isn't a surprise. While the Lancia marque has a gloried past, it has been allowed to languish and no longer holds the cachet it once did. Sergio respects Lancia's heritage, but Alfa is more valuable than Lancia (since the US never really 'got' Lancia) and so is the beneficiary of the investment. Maserati didn't need rehabilitation like Alfa and Lancia do, it just needed more product - which it got, on the cheap - and sales have soared.

Let's hope Alfa returns in as big a way so that perhaps Lancia can be properly reborn again some day as well. Just not right now.

So l shall have to hang on to my Thesis for years to come.

 

Everything starts with a vision. Remember, Vincenzo Lancia had a vision. He wouldn´t have imagined how long it would last. I sincerely hope there will be someone with a vision again.

Vincenzo Lancia proved many people were wrong. There must be someone who is able to prove that once again to Sergio Marchionne.

 

Or Lancia can go the way of Plymouth with people pining for a new Roadrunner that will never come. Once a brand completely dies it is very difficult to brig back but it is possible.

 

Hello John,

I must agree, unfortunately. Lancia isn´t dead yet, though. That´s the difference. The article is quite peculiar.

Sergio Marchionne would be willing to invest in Lancia if he had the funding needed for the brand´s overhaul. Alfa Romeo has to be an instant hit, otherwise Lancia´s demise is inevitable.

I must say that there´s a serious issue with the strategy Lancia has today...Limited editions of one particular model are certainly better than nothing. I would rather see just one concept car to create buzz and test the market reactions. The 2003 Lancia Fulvia created a lot of buzz, that model still poses an opportunity.

 

Its funny, I am in central Maine right now and just saw an old Lancia for sale.

 

Any idea what model was it? By the way, do you think Lancia should have been sold in China instead of Fiat? I do...

Chinese consumers in general like a little bit exotic brands...

 

I have no problem with bringing Lancia back as long as it doesn't mean Chrysler has to settle for second hand Maseratis for large cars, Fiats for small cars, and Lancias for midsize cars.

 

Agreed Dave. Don't want to see Chrysler suffer at the behest of any other brand..and to this point it hasn't..but..

 

Fortunately, the article comprises quite ancient video (considering very short life-cycle of any Italian plans).

http://www.autoedizione.com/lancia-only-temporarily-in-diminished-role/

Another interesting article states very clearly that FCA´s management would do everything to save the brand provided it has the funding to do it.

 

Anyway, here are other examples of the press coverage of the Lancia brand...

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/11/what-do-you-say-about-this-modern.html

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/03/could-2003-fulvia-coupe-concept-have.html

What a bunch of missed opportunities...

One can question Sergio Marchionne´s decision to give Alfa Romeo the top priority based on allegedly higher brand-awareness and equity. The thruth is he hasn´t done much to promote the brand and sales reflect that.

 

Just in case you´re not familiar with it already, there´s an online petition demanding the brand´s revival.

https://twitter.com/OccupyLancia/status/518083354236043264

For thouse with a Facebook account, Si a Lancia No a Marchionne project has been going on for some time already. If you want to help the brand, you can opt to support these projects.

I would like to believe that even the single click could make a difference. Lancia doesn´t have to be the biggest kid in the neighbourhood (see the Maserati commetcial)...When the time comes it must be ready to strike again.

Anyway, what strategy would you set for the brand provided it survives long enough to be resurrected?

 

I liked the idea of re-Badging the Lancia Delta as a Dodge hatch. Dodge needed a hatch around that size ( length and width - and I believe curb weight along with coefficient of aero drag - were favorably similar to the current Dodge Dart). I also thought that the FTP 1.9L TwinTurbo Diesel available in the Delta would be a great combination for sale in the USA ( all of which is an 'argument on paper' since we here in the States do not have anything like that to test drive for ourselves). I simply thought that would've been a great combination of versatile vehicle configuration with a power plant capable of delivering good fuel mileage - also very, very essential in the USA these days.

But no; not to be.

If consideration of that idea was ever mulled or debated in the front office, no evidence was ever made known that I'm aware.

 

Javelin, you may have missed the fact that, very early on, Marchionne brought a Delta to the US, badged as a Chrysler (he also brought a prototype of a Lancia SUV) and showed them at a major US auto show. They were panned by the American press (and by Allpar!!! - no surprise...!-). Marchionne shortly thereafter declared that the Lancia style was not suitable to the US market and that was the end of that!!! We could have had the Delta in the US: FIAT even arranged to have it featured in the movie the Da Vinci code, driven by Tom Hanks, to give it world-wide visibility.. ..

 

I DO remember now ... yes, the Chrysler grill.

I still have a 2005 Dodge Neon, long in the tooth and needs to be put out to pasture or restored, and would be comfortable with a 5-door hatch as its replacement. But the Delta ain't over here.

Glad you posted this reminder; thanks.

 

Well, the Delta was launched in 2008 only to get modest press coverage. Being based on Fiat Bravo, Delta was doomed from the very beginning. One could say it's another half-baked product.

Anyway, are there any pictures of the Lancia SUV prototype? I'm not entirely familiar with that except the fact that the model was to be named Agrippa after a famous Roman general. The car itself was based on the CUSW running gear.

 

Well, the Delta was launched in 2008 only to get modest press coverage. Being based on Fiat Bravo, Delta was doomed from the very beginning. One could say it's another half-baked product.

Anyway, are there any pictures of the Lancia SUV prototype? I'm not entirely familiar with that except the fact that the model was to be named Agrippa after a famous Roman general. The car itself was based on the CUSW running gear.

I think the Delta was a stylish car: a prime example of a premium small car. I am sorry it was not deemed right for the US: I still think it may have sold here... too bad!

 

THis was the Chrysler Lancia Delta:

 

The Delta in its final version did get that grille, for both the Lancia badged versions and the UK/Chrysler version.

 

And this was the prototype SUV (aka Chrysler 700)

 

Oh, you meant that one...I think it´s not a car that would sell under Lancia badge. Lancia is a vital part of Italian heritage, these global models wouldn´t produce sufficient volume, I guess.

If it´s an Italian company, it should sell products with distinctive Italian character. The very same applies to the Dart, it´s not American enough for some people.

 

At one point, there was talk of the 100 being a hatchback, and being sold in Europe as the next-gen Delta.

 

Hello,

yes, I know...Well, maybe it´s better this project didn´t come to fruition at least for Lancia. Nothing against Chrysler, not really. Consumers expect something a bit different from Lancia, that´s all.

How about turning Lancia into a Tesla competitor, perhaps with a lower price-tag? Just think about it...It could be very tough to meet ever tighter emission standards around the globe with all the sporty brands within FCA.

Autonomous driving and other technologies would certainly fit the brand too. By the way, Magneti Marelli is developing that system in collaboration with the Univeristy of Parma.

http://vislab.it/uncategorized/vislab-and-magneti-marelli-research-on-the-intelligent-car/

Could anyone elaborate on this a bit?

 

You're correct, if they (FCA) wants to set up sales with a new Lancia product ( to the U.S) they're going to have to use the
KIA/Hyundai plan, but start with better quality, introduce it slow and fairly inexpensive to entice customers.
As word of the quality and drive ability ensues , sales will climb. Then use the supply and demand to price thereafter.

 

That would be a problem. Lancia is an upscale brand already (sort of). Perhaps you should define inexpensive...

Anyway, Lancia´s most prominent markets would be Europe and China, I guess. You´re right, though, Lancia has to take the piecemeal approach. First should be the halo model (Fulvia), of course with at least one additional product in the pipeline to gain momentum provided the halo model sets the buying public on fire. And you know what? Alfa Romeo 4C shows it can be done.

Belief and vision, that would be the weapons which Lancia so desperately needs. A brand is too precious a thing to be messed up like this one. As I said before, Vincenzo Lancia had a vision. It didin´t succeed much commercially...However, Lancia gain the status of a legend.

 

That might be an option. I've said in posts in the past that Lancia's competition in the past was probably Citroen & Audi. Back when all three were makers of quirky, technologically advanced vehicles, not mainstream. Audi and Citroen have both shifted to being 'mainstream' in their quest for more volume. If you think of a current role model for that, upscale & techno., it's probably Tesla. So, maybe.. is there a market for it? Is Lancia a label that could pull it off. Not sure. ??

 

Well, everything is possible.

However, Lancia must be the progressive and innovative automaker once again. As I see it, one model could suffice to set the world on fire. Look at the Alfa Romeo 4C...In addition, Lancia CNG cars are very popular, at least in Italy. EVs and hybrids wouldn´t be such a stretch, would they?

If FCA wants it to be the fashionable brand it is now, why not? The main competitor would then be the DS brand from PSA...I risk my neck, right, but Lancia could be as technologically advanced as Mercedes-Benz is, but with Italian design and passionate character.

There´re many possibilities including the sort of Italian Subaru...FCA lacks the funding needed, though...

And to conclude my post, Tesla used to be an obscure project as well...They have kept building the brand step-by-step, though, and now look at it...

 

If FCA uses profits for other division to prop up a better-left-for-dead Lancia, I doubt I'll buy another new product from them. This is coming from someone who bought several new products recently: 2012 Challenger, 2013 300S (factory official car, not brand new), 2014 Fiat 500c, 2015 Dodge Challenger.

The excuse for the compromises that have limited Dart and 200 is a lack of resources . But yet there's cash to squander on Lancia? Lancia obviously could not make money or it would not be in the position it is in.

 

Hello,

well, we may not agree on this, it´s okay...Lancia brand is quite an unique proposition. This is an upscale brand with huge, yet unexploited potential...The brand itself still resonates within motoring public, journalists and enthusiasts...However, Fiat somehow hasn´t been able to offer much desired models...Right now, Lancia brand is far from its potential customers. That´s the problem.

There´s sufficient demand for the brand, the portfolio isn´t there, though...And you know what? The Ypsilon sells very well given its competition and price...It even contradicts the economic theory regarding the life-cycle of a product. It should be near its peak volume right now, yet it isn´t.

 

The arguments supporting Plymouth are simple, and I believe there are just two of them.

• Plymouth would not need any new cars.
• Having Plymouth would allow the much-needed brand focus for Chrysler and Dodge.

To counter your arguments, Plymouth is seen rather favorably by most Americans, though they are vague on what it is, and it's still relatively recent. Bringing back DeSoto or Packard would be hard. Plymouth, not so much.

To bring back Lancia, you would need to create new Lancias. You would need to differentiate Lancia strongly from Alfa Romeo and Maserati somehow. Where would Lancia fit exactly? With Plymouth, the primary costs would be marketing, legal, and dealership signs (paid for by dealerships!). All the vehicles exist, it's a matter of moving them from Dodge and retargeting future cars.

 

The arguments supporting Plymouth are simple, and I believe there are just two of them.

• Plymouth would not need any new cars.
• Having Plymouth would allow the much-needed brand focus for Chrysler and Dodge.

To counter your arguments, Plymouth is seen rather favorably by most Americans, though they are vague on what it is, and it's still relatively recent. Bringing back DeSoto or Packard would be hard. Plymouth, not so much.

To bring back Lancia, you would need to create new Lancias. You would need to differentiate Lancia strongly from Alfa Romeo and Maserati somehow. Where would Lancia fit exactly? With Plymouth, the primary costs would be marketing, legal, and dealership signs (paid for by dealerships!). All the vehicles exist, it's a matter of moving them from Dodge and retargeting future cars.

Hello Dave,

well, I must admit I´m not entirely familiar with the Plymouth history as I live in Europe.

Lancia could be differentiated easily...by price, market or the brand´s image. Lancia used to be fairly different compared to Alfa Romeo...That´s why I´ve suggested FCA should turn it into something else when the Ypsilon´s life-cycle´s up. There´re things that wouldn´t be suitable for other brands like autonomous driving, electric propulsion or many electronic gizmos...Lancia could very well start with one concept car that would determin if it´s right to retain the brand or drop it altogether.

Is it feasible? I don´t know. FCA has all the information at its disposal. I´m a mere armchair-CEO.

 

I think this argument comes down to IF there is product such as electric/hi-tech/unique product that would be developed and marketed, Lancia 'MIGHT BE' the brand to launch it under. As for a dream of simply reviving Lancia. No, not going happen, there are more profitable areas to focus dollars/euros on.
Agreed that Lancia's customers from the past, are disconnected from current product. Did Fiat management mis-manage the brand? Possibly. But when Alfa was acquired, the shift was made to move Lancia out of rallying and rebrand as a semi-luxury brand.

 

I think this argument comes down to IF there is product such as electric/hi-tech/unique product that would be developed and marketed, Lancia 'MIGHT BE' the brand to launch it under. As for a dream of simply reviving Lancia. No, not going happen, there are more profitable areas to focus dollars/euros on.
Agreed that Lancia's customers from the past, are disconnected from current product. Did Fiat management mis-manage the brand? Possibly. But when Alfa was acquired, the shift was made to move Lancia out of rallying and rebrand as a semi-luxury brand.

That wouldn´t be a problem. Semi-luxury is good, the products aren´t thar great, though. The execution is key here. Ypsilon sells well, yet, Fiat would get much more out of it provided the model isn´t just good, but excellent...

Fulvia is, however, the most likely candidate to spearhead the brand´s resurrection, I guess. It wouldn´t overlap with Alfa Romeo, either...

 

How many brands that focused on rallying are still around? That's an honest question from a guy who curates rootes-chrysler.co.uk which is full of dead rallying champions.

 

How about Subaru, Audi, Toyota, Citroen, Ford, Mini...?

 

By the way, Agnelli family has excercised their option to get two FCAU shares for each one they already have.

And Agnelli family is said to be Lancia's advocate among the stakeholders. The family has even greater grip from now on...Let's assume they would at least lobby for Lancia's comeback with properly engineered models to be developed.

 

Lancia may well be a backup for Alfa. I suspect there is a difference of opinion on Lancia between the Agnellis and SM.

I was never thinking Plymouth would be a worldwide effort, just the US, Canada, and maybe Mexico.

 

Lancia may well be a backup for Alfa. I suspect there is a difference of opinion on Lancia between the Agnellis and SM.

I was never thinking Plymouth would be a worldwide effort, just the US, Canada, and maybe Mexico.

Yes, I figured that out. However, it's actually very frequent to see disputes among the stakeholders and management. But then again, it was them who hired Sergio Marchionne.

Only time will tell who is right and this applies to this forum and FCA as well.

Lancia's fall has its reasons, perfectly known reasons to be very precise. Suddenly, the brand saw light at the end of a tunnel when Fiat acquired Chrysler shares back in 2009. The merger of Lancia and Chrysler was very unfortunate, but it showed how viable Lancia brand really is. Everyone loathed the badge-engineered products, some pinpointed more desired vehicles of Lancia's though.

 

I may be insane but I would appoint Lapo Elkann the President of Lancia brand. He would then have the same role Luca di Montezemolo had prior to his departure from Ferrari.

Just think about it...Lapo Elkann is a celebrity, very well-known even beyond Italian borders. He is Gianni Agnelli's relative, that should explain a lot.

Antonella Bruno, the CEO of Lancia, is somehow invisible. Lapo Elkann would draw attention to Lancia again...at the very least...He is an entrepreneur himself, focusing mainly on customized cars.

What do you think?

 

I think Lancia needs more than a showman. Tesla is run by a showman but they have cars to back them up. Lido was a showman but he had cars to back him up. Before the K-car, Lido didn't boost Chrysler sales. DeLorean was a splashy personality but he didn't move Pontiacs until he redesigned them.

If they can't afford Plymouth, with no actual new cars required, they can't afford Lancia, which would require a full new carline. And again I ask, where would they fit into the scheme of Fiat Chrysler? What could they do that Alfa, Fiat, Maserati, Jeep, and Chrysler don't?

Why not start rallying Jeeps? They're built tough, or should be, anyway. (Do they still rally “stock” cars or is that in the past?)

 

You're right, Lapo Elkann is more of a showman, but that's alright. That's why I wrote President of Lancia brand whereas CEO would be someone more familiar with management of the day-to-day operations. In other words, an organizational structure similar to Ferrari's. That is highly efficient, I would say.

As for the Plymouth comeback, FCA has its own priorities, I guess. There're at least rumours concerning Lancia's ressurection, not so much in the Plymouth's case.

 

Medicin-Man, you are the one who said he was a showman. I am saying there's no point having a showman with nothing to show.

 

Well, we usually associate something else with the term celebrity here in Europe, that's all.

I like the way Luca di Montezemolo represented Ferrari, that would be the modus operandi for the Lancia brand's president if there's one.

That position should be assumed by someone influential and Lapo Elkann is up to the task. We may not agree on that particular name, the most important thing would be the way in which the brand would be managed. Do you know what I mean?