[Powdered Toast Man]

If they only drop the BEV pickup, I have no objection. Chevy and Ford both found it hard to sell them, most pickup buyers are getting an image car. The days of the pickup as a primarily commercial vehicle are long gone. Those who do buy it for heavy duty towing won't get enough range while towing. The Ramcharger's the ideal for that one reason, though a serial plug-in hybrid has its own problems - having to keep the fuel fresh, carrying an engine all the time, having the complexity of gasoline added onto the electric part, etc.

Dropping their two mainstream-ish EVs would be foolish now, since the Charger's hobbled by its two-door setup, and both are hobbled by early teething problems. Over time, I expect sales to slowly build up.

I just listened to this podcast the other day. They explain the regulatory loophole that basically directly led to US automaker's dependence on trucks and why they're so popular in North America today.

 

[Dave Z]

Not much to explain, really. Trucks were seen as being used by farmers and therefore sacred, so they made an exception for trucks, and immediately automakers started focusing on trucks to replace V8s, including the Li'l Red Express Truck. They didn't really sell well until SUVs (Explorer, Cherokee) took off and pickups became refined enough for daily use (1994 Ram).

 

[voiceofstl]

Some of us remember when our auto industry was selling rather obsolete cars and suddenly fuel prices rose and nobody wanted "land yachts" any more. Chrysler would be long dead now if not for the foresightedness of the president in seeing the Horizon being developed in Europe and saying, "We want that" - and then, a bit belatedly, realizing they could Americanize the design and make the Reliant.

In 1981, there was almost no market for traditional American cars. That could happen again. The Middle East is a power keg again, with Qatar and Iran fighting a proxy war against the Saudis, Iraq, and Israel. (Which is why the leadership of Hamas lives in luxury in Qatar, not in Gaza, and why the Houthis are aiming rockets at European cargo ships and Israel alike.) The US has zero extra refinery capacity. If we start using more, not less, gasoline and one of those refineries goes out from an accident (with OSHA all but dead) or from terrorism (most anti-terrorist specialists have already been fired), what'll happen to companies that bet 100% on big gasoline vehicles?

Sure, sounds paranoid if you don't know the history behind the 1970s oil crises and if you don't keep up with tech news. As it happens, between arstechnica.com and military.com, you can see exactly how we're making disaster much more likely.

... of course if we erect really tight trade barriers, the auto industry would survive since there'd be no foreign cars coming in...

build more refineries

 

[Dave Z]

build more refineries

OK, you go tell ExxonMobil to spend $10 billion on another refinery. I'll wait.

 

[Adventurer55]

Oil companies are closing refineries for a couple reasons in my opinion. One, to keep supplies tight and raise the price of gasoline. Two, they do not want to spend the money to upgrade them. If anyone thinks they have the public's best interest in mind, is either young, or has no clue. If you're as old as me and remember the early 70s when all this crap started, nothing is a shock as to what oil companies can do.

 

[keitho]

Would love to hear what that cost

 

[Dave Z]

Oil companies are closing refineries for a couple reasons in my opinion. One, to keep supplies tight and raise the price of gasoline. Two, they do not want to spend the money to upgrade them. If anyone thinks they have the public's best interest in mind, is either young, or has no clue. If you're as old as me and remember the early 70s when all this crap started, nothing is a shock as to what oil companies can do.

I have inside info on that one. They closed refineries because the biggest ones made the most profits. They closed the smaller ones to maximize profits. It's as simple as that. Having extra capacity is an expense so they don't.

 

[geoff.gariepy]

I saw a rumor the other day that Ram is working on a ICE Ramcharger SUV, like the one from back in the 1990s. That's probably the reason for the name switcheroo.

I don't think the cost of carrying around a V6 engine, gasoline fuel system, exhaust system, etc., just to crutch today's battery technology to make the range acceptable without building an 8500 pound truck is going to be worth it. They're either going to adopt a different battery chemistry or they're going to 86 the whole hybrid concept for the pickup truck. I'm betting on the latter, but what do I know? (Nothing from the inside...)

 

[Adventurer55]

I saw a rumor the other day that Ram is working on a ICE Ramcharger SUV, like the one from back in the 1990s. That's probably the reason for the name switcheroo.

I don't think the cost of carrying around a V6 engine, gasoline fuel system, exhaust system, etc., just to crutch today's battery technology to make the range acceptable without building an 8500 pound truck is going to be worth it. They're either going to adopt a different battery chemistry or they're going to 86 the whole hybrid concept for the pickup truck. I'm betting on the latter, but what do I know? (Nothing from the inside...)

If the Ramcharger returns it will not be a two door like it was from 74 to 93 here, and later in Mexico.

 

[geoff.gariepy]

If the Ramcharger returns it will not be a two door like it was from 74 to 93 here, and later in Mexico.

No, it will probably be a reskinned Wagoneer.

 

[kevin m. Henry]

No, it will probably be a reskinned Wagoneer.

If they even bother reskinning it, probably just slap a new nose on it and call it good.

 

[Dave Z]

.. and the Durango name goes away?

 

[mentalicca]

.. and the Durango name goes away?

That's assuming Durango is still pivoting to STLA Frame, and isn't just going to continue in its current size class. Personally, I have always liked the idea of Ramcharger being the Dodge/Ram version of the Wagoneer. Some Rebel/RHO variants would be quite fun.

They have been all over the place with where they are positioning Durango. Ramcharger as the SUV could also incentivize them to consider reconsolidating Dodge and Ram together. Ram Ramcharger does not sound nearly as good as Dodge Ramcharger. And way more people than I even realized still call it the Dodge Ram or Dodge Truck or Dodge Ram 1500 anyway.

 

[Adventurer55]

If they make a new Ramcharger it'll be Ram based, just like the Wagoneer. If the Durango survives it'll be like it's WL cousin, based on the STLA Large.

 

[GasAxe]

It’s truly amazing how long Chrysler/DCX/Cerebus/FCA/Stellantis has dithered on reintroducing the Ramcharger.

 

[geoff.gariepy]

It’s truly amazing how long Chrysler/DCX/Cerebus/FCA/Stellantis has dithered on reintroducing the Ramcharger.

No, it's not! A big honking SUV like that needed certain EPA/CAFE requirements to no longer be in place for it to work. I doubt fuel efficiency is a major design spec.

 

[Dave Z]

Ramcharger coming back and base Wagoneer being dropped do work together

 

[GasAxe]

No, it's not! A big honking SUV like that needed certain EPA/CAFE requirements to no longer be in place for it to work. I doubt fuel efficiency is a major design spec.

Back in the early aughts there were discussions on how the Ramcharger should return. Production capacity was the limiting factor, not specifically fuel efficiency though that would come up. Name an excuse, real or perceived, the Ramcharger was never given a chance to compete while other manufacturers could find a way.

 

[Adventurer55]

No, it's not! A big honking SUV like that needed certain EPA/CAFE requirements to no longer be in place for it to work. I doubt fuel efficiency is a major design spec.

Trust me, it's more then way past due. This should've happened in the late 90s with the original T300.

 

[joewho]

No, it will probably be a reskinned Wagoneer.

Probably lol , it will definitely be a rebadged Wagoneer