[DarkSky]

@Mr. Fusion When I read that, I was wondering if maybe Honda sold a different HR-V in the US market than they do in Europe. Good to see that they don't, and it's just untrained journalists bringing their baggage to a review as usual.

The 500X interior is one of the best in the category. Countryman's is better, Audi Q2 also, but you're paying a lot more for those - especially when you order them in All-wheel-drive form.

Actually, AWD is the big issue with 500X's price. $26,000 is actually pretty good value for an AWD car of this size, but when you just want "a" car of this size, it looks very expensive.

HR-V feels spacious inside. The 500X doesn't. Interior quality should (and does) take a back seat to interior volume in this segment.

HR-V
Max cargo volume: 57.6 cubic feet
Front legroom: 41.2 inches
Rear legroom: 39.3 inches
EPA fuel efficiency: 26-27 city, 31 highway
Base price with AWD: $23,415

500X
Max cargo volume: 50.8 cubic feet
Front legroom: 41.4 inches
Rear legroom: 34.8 inches
EPA fuel efficiency: 24 city, 30 highway
Base price with AWD: $24,590*

*Not sure if that price includes destination. If not, it's an even bigger gap.

 

[Doug D]

Hopefully no one drives off the lot anywhere near MSRP.

I've never paid MSRP for the three vehicles I have bought new.

1992 Plymouth Acclaim - MSRP ~$14,000 - Final price ~$11,000
2006 Dodge Ram SLT - MSRP $32,400 - Final price - $28,990
2009 Dodge Journey SXT MSRP ~$23,000 - Final price - ~$21,000

Even so I was upside down on all three for the majority of the time I had the loan.

 

[Dave Z]

@Ryan — that's a huge legroom gap.

BTW, a couple of years ago, I realized there's no point in reporting front and rear legroom separately. Total legroom is all that matters. Front seats today usually move quite a bit - seven inches seems normal.

 

[DarkSky]

@Ryan — that's a huge legroom gap.

BTW, a couple of years ago, I realized there's no point in reporting front and rear legroom separately. Total legroom is all that matters. Front seats today usually move quite a bit - seven inches seems normal.

That is quite a big difference in legroom...

My cargo space measurements were wrong. That's what I get for trusting Google. Still, after checking the specs on Honda and Fiat's websites, there's still an 6.8 cubic-foot advantage to the HR-V.

 

[Adventurer55]

Plus you get built in resale value in the Honda. You get squat with the Fiat. It gives you the feeling that if I buy this how long will it take to get parts for it, because I know it's going to need them. And how much longer is my dealer going to be selling them.

 

[T_690]

HR-V feels spacious inside. The 500X doesn't. Interior quality should (and does) take a back seat to interior volume in this segment.

HR-V
Max cargo volume: 57.6 cubic feet
Front legroom: 41.2 inches
Rear legroom: 39.3 inches
EPA fuel efficiency: 26-27 city, 31 highway
Base price with AWD: $23,415

500X
Max cargo volume: 50.8 cubic feet
Front legroom: 41.4 inches
Rear legroom: 34.8 inches
EPA fuel efficiency: 24 city, 30 highway
Base price with AWD: $24,590*

*Not sure if that price includes destination. If not, it's an even bigger gap.

Are measurements standardized?

It seems strange to see how much more combined legroom Honda has. Especially if we take into account that Small Wide platform is efficiently packaged.

 

[valiant67]

I've never paid MSRP for the three vehicles I have bought new.

1992 Plymouth Acclaim - MSRP ~$14,000 - Final price ~$11,000
2006 Dodge Ram SLT - MSRP $32,400 - Final price - $28,990
2009 Dodge Journey SXT MSRP ~$23,000 - Final price - ~$21,000

Even so I was upside down on all three for the majority of the time I had the loan.

The discount from MSRP on things like the Fiat 500X and Jeep Renegade are much larger percentages (assuming it's a decent deal) from MSRP than your examples. My 2018 Renegade was around $7500 off an MSRP of about $27k - granted this was several months after the 2019 model year started.

 

[DarkSky]

Are measurements standardized?

It seems strange to see how much more combined legroom Honda has. Especially if we take into account that Small Wide platform is efficiently packaged.

I guess it's not as efficient as the Honda. They are known for packing a ton of space into a small footprint.

 

[valiant67]

I guess it's not as efficient as the Honda. They are known for packing a ton of space into a small footprint.

The cheapest way to make a car crash test better is to make very thick doors and such which makes the interior smaller.
Also speaking of efficiency, the HRV manages to do 2-3 MPG better than the 500x in fuel economy.

 

[KrisW]

The overall interior volumes are within 5 cubic feet (140 litres) of each other - which is about what you'd expect for the 1 inch (2.5 cm) wheelbase extension the HR-V has over the 500 in a car this size. The Honda's extra rear legroom is partly from the longer wheelbase, but mostly from mounting the back seats back closer to the rear wheel-arches - it's a common design pattern in Japanese cars, but it trades away hip-space in exchange for leg room. Everything is a compromise.

The cheapest way to make a car crash test better is to make very thick doors and such which makes the interior smaller.

The thickness of the doors has zero no effect on crash safety ratings - it's largely a styling decision. Tumblehome - how wide the lower body is in comparison to the upper, is the main determiner of how wide the door has to be. You never see the structures that provide side-impact protection, but they're only about 10 mm deep, and will fit inside any kind of outer shell that can accommodate an armrest and a loudspeaker.

Compare the door profile for Renegade (flat-sided) and 500X (small cabin, wide base) - note how much thicker the 500X door is at the handle:

 

[Citation84]

Not sure the standard AWD is a positive nor the 1.3 is a "better" engine. Only time will prove that. But it's "new" so it must be "better". We've been told so by "experts" on the internet.

 

[Citation84]

Yeas, it has to automotive journalist bias and baggage. It can't have anything to do with the fact (in the US) Honda sells between 4 to 10 times as many HRVs per year than Fiat sells 500Xs. Those journalists must sure have some devoted followers.

And buys a lot more ads every month..........

 

[Dave Z]

The 1.3T is certainly better than the 1.4T

 

[77 Monaco Brougham]

@Ryan — that's a huge legroom gap.

BTW, a couple of years ago, I realized there's no point in reporting front and rear legroom separately. Total legroom is all that matters. Front seats today usually move quite a bit - seven inches seems normal.

Unless you're someone like little ole me...in which case HIP ROOM is most important!

 

[valiant67]

The thickness of the doors has zero no effect on crash safety ratings - it's largely a styling decision. Tumblehome - how wide the lower body is in comparison to the upper, is the main determiner of how wide the door has to be. You never see the structures that provide side-impact protection, but they're only about 10 mm deep, and will fit inside any kind of outer shell that can accommodate an armrest and a speaker.

Yes a 10mm piece will repeal the laws of physics.

 

[KrisW]

I'd quit while I was behind if I were you...

The strength of the door is structural, not from its mass - this is the basic principle of a monocoque design. The additional structures in the door are used to brace it to create a more rigid structure, and also allow the force of impact to be channeled out to the sides where the main body shell can absorb it.

These structures don't have to be thick or heavy, and they don't add any additional depth to the doors, because the doors themselves have a large void between interior and exterior surface, and the contour of the interior door-trim gives even more space that could be used. How deep the void between inside and outside is is basically down to how the car has been styled.

The doors on 500x are deeper than on Renegade, yet both offer identical side-impact protection.

 

[90243]

Internal structure of the doors (the one that give protection) is identical in 500X and Renegade (that is the way they save money).

The numbers we have in Europe about cargo dimensions are similar for 500X, Renegade and Honda HR-V.

Cargo room (unfolded rear seats, fodelded down rear seats).
The first value is the closed rear cargo space.

Honda HR-V 355 / 1165 liters
Jeep Renegade 351 / 1.297 liters
Fiat 500X 350 / 1000 liters

The difference between Renegade/500X and Honda HR-V rear space (rear seats area + cargo) is because suspensions McPherson vs. H twist beam.

If You look at Fiat 500L, that has a twist beam rear suspension, than the volume numbers are different.
Fiat 500L 455 / 1480 liters

 

[Dave Z]

Wonder why they aren't trying the old PT Cruiser rear suspension which was very space-efficient?

 

[patfromigh]

Wonder why they aren't trying the old PT Cruiser rear suspension which was very space-efficient?

All wheel drive. My hope is for a new product from Serbia that isn't trying to be a Fiat 500 or a Jeep. We desperately need something following the Panda form. The Fiat 500L would have been better off using the Panda form, but that's been said before.

I will forgive Fiat for the higher load floor in the 500X, if it results in a PHEV version.

 

[90243]

Wonder why they aren't trying the old PT Cruiser rear suspension which was very space-efficient?

PT Cruiser had, if I am not wrong, also a twist beam rear suspension as 500L, Tipo, 500, Panda, ....
In Europe was / is a popular solution since '70/80 for small / medium size cars.