AN: February from a Chrysler perspective

Dave Z · Mar 6, 2014

They were aiming to reposition Dodge as “sporty through handling.” That's why Dart ended up as it is.

I suspect Gen 2 will use Viaggio's cheaper suspension.

md80891 · Mar 6, 2014

Dart suffered because it was not made V6 capable from the start, It did not have enough horsepower from the start, It did not have an SRT version, it did not have an awd wagon variant, it was campaigned with the ADHD ads.

md80891 · Mar 6, 2014

Dave said:
They were aiming to reposition Dodge as “sporty through handling.” That's why Dart ended up as it is.

I suspect Gen 2 will use Viaggio's cheaper suspension.

ATS>@$<

I hope I wrote that right. its the formula for selling cars. greatest acceleration, turn and stop at the least price. you could add C for content and BQ for build quality as well.

Now taking away turning capability or content will only compound the problem.

Mr.Source · Mar 6, 2014

Sad to read this, but please let me know when was your car assembled, and don't tell me about those rattles in the suspension, I said it here long time ago, and few believed me, but you can be sure there are fixes for most of all those problems.

If your dealer isn't helping you, you must go to any other dealer and ask them for the fix, there are so many fixes a dealer MUST perform, but as always, dealer are not working with Chrysler, they are against Chrysler.

Many of those problems came with those early production cars, and DEALERS were adviced to fix them why the vehicles were still at their lots.

You deserve a better service, demand it, don't just seat there, give them hell, go into their showroom and start asking for a solution LOUD and clear, and if they don't listen to you, PLEASE go back to the showroom and tell potential customers about your nightmare with your car, about the terrible service you are getting from them.

Again, you deserve the best service, it's not your problem, it's the dealers problem to give you a positive solution, they have many resources, if they can't they can always contact Chrysler, but please, give them hell...

You will be more than glad after you will do it, they will have to come with a solution, take a new demo for a test, just make sure it has been build lately, no more than two months, and you must feel the difference, then tell them, you want your car exactly as the one you just tested.

Please let me know, the date your car was build.

Fozz said:
I work for Chrysler and I own a Dart (1.4L turbo with 6-speed manual transmission). I love the mileage. It handles and drives great. It seems to have been well built. So I should be claiming it is a wonderful car. But...

But after those few points it falls short and is riddled with problems and design flaws:
1) Delay in electronic gas pedal response.
2) Delay in horn response.
3) Delay in ignition (and shut off) response.
4) Clutch just doesn't work sometimes (I assume air is getting into the hydraulic system).
5) Suspension rattles.
6) USB and charger sockets inside the center console work intermittently.
7) Heater is insufficient (it is a very small engine).
8) Fuel door mechanism easily freezes in the cold (I think it opened twice all winter without being pried open).
9) 8.4 Uconnect randomly shuts down and reboots.

It is the BIGGEST car in it's segment - why not go ahead and get an Avenger or 200? I had an Avenger and loved it! Why did we make a small car that is so large?

You can say it's a good car - but to me it is disappointing. And the dealer is decidedly unhelpful.

JoshMHam · Mar 6, 2014

md80891 said:
Dart suffered because it was not made V6 capable from the start, It did not have enough horsepower from the start, It did not have an SRT version, it did not have an awd wagon variant, it was campaigned with the ADHD ads.

Then why does Ford/Toyota/Honda not have the same issue with their sales? They don't have V6s; they have the same (or lower horsepower); the Focus ST didn't come out for a few years; none of them offer AWD.

Mr.Source · Mar 6, 2014

md80891 said:
Dart suffered because it was not made V6 capable from the start, It did not have enough horsepower from the start, It did not have an SRT version, it did not have an awd wagon variant, it was campaigned with the ADHD ads.

Who says the Dart isn't capable for a V6 ????

md80891 · Mar 6, 2014

JoshMHam said:
Then why does Ford/Toyota/Honda not have the same issue with their sales? They don't have V6s; they have the same (or lower horsepower); the Focus ST didn't come out for a few years; none of them offer AWD.

Established Segment Presence, Honda has a stellar reputation for build quality and value. Civic commercial with singed woman includes Civic's resale value. Civic is under 3000lbs had performance versions released and the 275hp type R just debuted.

ST is here, Focus starts at 2800lbs with 160hp not 147hp base.

Corolla is 2800lbs and while slow the quality/value is established and the superbowl ad highlighted the content

SM made reference to the Jetta and VW sold 28k Sport Wagons plus whatever Audi sold

If your going to be heavy that's fine then put enough power in it first rather than later because the first impression is critical. Sell the content and the performance.. if you are diving into an established market then find a way to separate yourself. if you are comparing yourself to a segment leader then at least offer the same variants.

Fiero, Pacifica ash heap of history is littered with cars that were underpowered, had reputations for poor build quality and by the time they were resolved it was too late.

Just my opinion however

Mr.Source said:
Who says the Dart isn't capable for a V6 ????

Jalopnik excerpted

"Sources with Allpar say there's a group of Chrysler engineers currently trying to figure out a way to get a 3.0-liter version of the Pentastar V6 into the Dart in an attempt to add further power. "

Allpar's sources indicate there are few problems with getting the Pentastar 3.0 in the Dart, space being the primary issue. Sticking a six-cylinder in also probably wasn't in the cards when Chrysler envisioned this as their Focus fighter, either. The fact that there is the wave of 2.0Ts out there producing more than 230 horses with superior EPA figures makes the possibility of a Dart V6 shakier.P
But we can dream, right? The Dart still has three other engine options that provide more typical compact sedan mileage and performance. And the idea of a naturally aspirated V6 in a (relatively) small car does conjure up memories of the old Jetta VR6s that had gobs of smooth power. Actually, it probably makes Chrysler fans remember the Plymouth Sundance-based Duster of the early '90s. ""

If you don't have that 230hp turbo 4 then use what you got. VR6s were really popular out here. Same with the sport wagon.

Mr.Source · Mar 6, 2014

That doesn't mean nothing, the truth is different, anyway the Dart will start selling well, there are some new changes coming, but as it is right now, the Dart is going to sell, just watch sales of the car in the coming months,

md80891 said:
Established Segment Presence, Honda has a stellar reputation for build quality and value. Civic commercial with singed woman includes Civic's resale value. Civic is under 3000lbs had performance versions released and the 275hp type R just debuted.

ST is here, Focus starts at 2800lbs with 160hp not 147hp base.

Corolla is 2800lbs and while slow the quality/value is established and the superbowl ad highlighted the content

SM made reference to the Jetta and VW sold 28k Sport Wagons plus whatever Audi sold

If your going to be heavy that's fine then put enough power in it first rather than later because the first impression is critical. Sell the content and the performance.. if you are diving into an established market then find a way to separate yourself. if you are comparing yourself to a segment leader then at least offer the same variants.

Fiero, Pacifica ash heap of history is littered with cars that were underpowered, had reputations for poor build quality and by the time they were resolved it was too late.

Just my opinion however

Jalopnik excerpted

"Sources with Allpar say there's a group of Chrysler engineers currently trying to figure out a way to get a 3.0-liter version of the Pentastar V6 into the Dart in an attempt to add further power. "

Allpar's sources indicate there are few problems with getting the Pentastar 3.0 in the Dart, space being the primary issue. Sticking a six-cylinder in also probably wasn't in the cards when Chrysler envisioned this as their Focus fighter, either. The fact that there is the wave of 2.0Ts out there producing more than 230 horses with superior EPA figures makes the possibility of a Dart V6 shakier.P
But we can dream, right? The Dart still has three other engine options that provide more typical compact sedan mileage and performance. And the idea of a naturally aspirated V6 in a (relatively) small car does conjure up memories of the old Jetta VR6s that had gobs of smooth power. Actually, it probably makes Chrysler fans remember the Plymouth Sundance-based Duster of the early '90s. ""

If you don't have that 230hp turbo 4 then use what you got. VR6s were really popular out here. Same with the sport wagon.

md80891 · Mar 6, 2014

Mr.Source said:
That doesn't mean nothing, the truth is different, anyway the Dart will start selling well, there are some new changes coming, but as it is right now, the Dart is going to sell, just watch sales of the car in the coming months,

I hope so because i Think its a great looking car and would like it to become a segment leader. But when I saw that press conference where SM talked about Dart sales under performing and it being under powered my reaction was to first throw something then exclaim AYFKM which in utah brakes down to Are You Flipping Kidding Me? You didn't see this coming?

Dart has been like watching a gear up landing you can see it coming but just nothing you can do.

JRS200x · Mar 6, 2014

Mr.Source said:
You deserve a better service, demand it, don't just seat there, give them hell, go into their showroom and start asking for a solution LOUD and clear, and if they don't listen to you, PLEASE go back to the showroom and tell potential customers about your nightmare with your car, about the terrible service you are getting from them.

While I agree with most of what Mr. Source said in his post.. PLEASE do not do the above, it is NOT the way to get things done at a dealership. Sales and service are different, if you have a problem ask for the service director or the GM, but going upfront and disrupting business in a different part of the dealership is not advised. Also, starting to mouth off to customers is the quickest way to get thrown out of a dealership and not be welcome back.

Again, I do think you should make your point and continue to fight to get your car fixed, but there are MUCH better ways of going about it. Ones that will work better as well.

Longtimejeep · Mar 6, 2014

Mr.Source said:
Sad to read this, but please let me know when was your car assembled, and don't tell me about those rattles in the suspension, I said it here long time ago, and few believed me, but you can be sure there are fixes for most of all those problems.

If your dealer isn't helping you, you must go to any other dealer and ask them for the fix, there are so many fixes a dealer MUST perform, but as always, dealer are not working with Chrysler, they are against Chrysler.

Many of those problems came with those early production cars, and DEALERS were adviced to fix them why the vehicles were still at their lots.

You deserve a better service, demand it, don't just seat there, give them hell, go into their showroom and start asking for a solution LOUD and clear, and if they don't listen to you, PLEASE go back to the showroom and tell potential customers about your nightmare with your car, about the terrible service you are getting from them.

Again, you deserve the best service, it's not your problem, it's the dealers problem to give you a positive solution, they have many resources, if they can't they can always contact Chrysler, but please, give them hell...

You will be more than glad after you will do it, they will have to come with a solution, take a new demo for a test, just make sure it has been build lately, no more than two months, and you must feel the difference, then tell them, you want your car exactly as the one you just tested.

Please let me know, the date your car was build.

While I admit the dealer network is marginal at best when it comes to service, I disagree with your premise that he should have to demand a fix from his dealer. If Chrysler is aware of issues, Chrysler should address them. If someone needs to demand the proper repairs are done, let it be corporate putting the heat on the dealer.
If Chrysler knows of issues before a clean point build date, let Ma Mopar contact the customer, explain the issue, & have the parts ready for the dealers so as not to impact the customer anymore than necessary.
This is not a dealer created issue. Chrysler needs to take ownership of it.
Chrysler wants their dealers to change, then lead by example.

JoshMHam · Mar 6, 2014

md80891 said:
Corolla is 2800lbs and while slow the quality/value is established and the superbowl ad highlighted the content

To me, that is the biggest difference. If Dodge would have focused more on the comfort, quietness, and technology, instead of Travis Pastrana drifting around corners, people would have a much more realistic idea of what the vehicle actually is.

It also may have done better as a Chrysler in it's current set-up (with different styling).

BASONE88 · Mar 6, 2014

JoshMHam said:
Then why does Ford/Toyota/Honda not have the same issue with their sales? They don't have V6s; they have the same (or lower horsepower); the Focus ST didn't come out for a few years; none of them offer AWD.

I think the bottom line is, this is a hotly contested segment..with many long-standing, reputable offerings. Chrysler needed to jump in. But, alas, as with anything..it is nearly impossible to be go from zero to hero in nothing flat..no matter how good you are!

Give it some time..Darts will sell.

marlon_jbt · Mar 6, 2014

JRS200x said:
While I agree with most of what Mr. Source said in his post.. PLEASE do not do the above, it is NOT the way to get things done at a dealership. Sales and service are different, if you have a problem ask for the service director or the GM, but going upfront and disrupting business in a different part of the dealership is not advised. Also, starting to mouth off to customers is the quickest way to get thrown out of a dealership and not be welcome back.

Again, I do think you should make your point and continue to fight to get your car fixed, but there are MUCH better ways of going about it. Ones that will work better as well.

You forgot arrested. Ask my uncle how many times Northwestern Dodge called the police on him...

Mr.Source · Mar 6, 2014

I know and understand there are better ways, but if you read again, you will see that the dealer hasn't helped him at all, so it comes a time when you have to give lessons, if they want to play clean, the customer will play clean, if not they should get hell.
Many dealers are FORGETTING about the customer SATISFACTION AFTER the sale, and that IS very bad, so they deserve a lesson, they will never forget, after that, they will start respecting their customers.

JRS200x said:
While I agree with most of what Mr. Source said in his post.. PLEASE do not do the above, it is NOT the way to get things done at a dealership. Sales and service are different, if you have a problem ask for the service director or the GM, but going upfront and disrupting business in a different part of the dealership is not advised. Also, starting to mouth off to customers is the quickest way to get thrown out of a dealership and not be welcome back.

Again, I do think you should make your point and continue to fight to get your car fixed, but there are MUCH better ways of going about it. Ones that will work better as well.

Longtimejeep said:
While I admit the dealer network is marginal at best when it comes to service, I disagree with your premise that he should have to demand a fix from his dealer. If Chrysler is aware of issues, Chrysler should address them. If someone needs to demand the proper repairs are done, let it be corporate putting the heat on the dealer.
If Chrysler knows of issues before a clean point build date, let Ma Mopar contact the customer, explain the issue, & have the parts ready for the dealers so as not to impact the customer anymore than necessary.
This is not a dealer created issue. Chrysler needs to take ownership of it.
Chrysler wants their dealers to change, then lead by example.

Chrysler IS aware of those problems, and advices dealer to do all the steps to fix the problem BUT, most dealers IGNORE all those advices.

Dave Z · Mar 6, 2014

I don't know about most dealers, but certainly there are still a lot of very bad ones. Some Chrysler was forced to take back... others they just didn't get rid of when they could, because I guess they were focused on pissing contests instead of customer service. But that's neither here nor there.

That said, the thing to do when you have a problem is call Chrysler and if that fails, write. People here have reported a very high success rate in problems suddenly getting solved.

Mr.Source · Mar 6, 2014

marlon_jbt said:
You forgot arrested. Ask my uncle how many times Northwestern Dodge called the police on him...

It doesn't scares me at all, the customer has all the rights to demand good service, that doesn't mean he is able to insult or such things, but he can always speak to other potential customers and tell them about his nightmare WITH the dealer.

I have seen it several times, in fact I saw a customer having all kinds of words all over his car against a dealer, he even wrote in his car, that the car is for sale, and the best offer will take the car, the nightmare for the dealer was for almost 6 weeks, the dealer even offered him to buy the car, and the owner said, I'll wait some more time, and if your offer is the best, you will win it, in the meantime, you are not the highes, so I will continue driving like this my car.

He drove the car outside the dealer, every day for hours, and went almost to every mall near the dealer, he parked the car at Costco and malls, believe me, the dealer was almost begging him to stop it, but the owner refused their offers for weeks, until he finally got what he wanted.

The dealer will never forget about him, and lawyers couldn't do anything to him, so........

Longtimejeep · Mar 6, 2014

Dave said:
I don't know about most dealers, but certainly there are still a lot of very bad ones. Some Chrysler was forced to take back... others they just didn't get rid of when they could, because I guess they were focused on pissing contests instead of customer service. But that's neither here nor there.

That said, the thing to do when you have a problem is call Chrysler and if that fails, write. People here have reported a very high success rate in problems suddenly getting solved.

While I agree with you Dave, It just yanks my chain when Chrysler has an opportunity to be pro-active they don't lead by example. It literally kills the brand loyalty they are attempting to retain and build.

MoparDanno · Mar 6, 2014

Mr.Source said:
I know and understand there are better ways, but if you read again, you will see that the dealer hasn't helped him at all, so it comes a time when you have to give lessons, if they want to play clean, the customer will play clean, if not they should get hell.
Many dealers are FORGETTING about the customer SATISFACTION AFTER the sale, and that IS very bad, so they deserve a lesson, they will never forget, after that, they will start respecting their customers.

Chrysler IS aware of those problems, and advices dealer to do all the steps to fix the problem BUT, most dealers IGNORE all those advices.

Mr Source,

Who pays for all of this? The underlying theme is usually cost to the dealership. If it made financial sense for them to go out of their way to help these customers, then perhaps you would see more dealers doing so.

The biggest problem is that CHRYSLER sticks these dealers with almost the full cost of keeping the customer happy. IE Rental cars, paying the techs to do the work etc.

Until Chrysler steps up and accepts its OWN responsibility in these matters, and offers cost effective solutions for the dealers, then why should we expect better from these dealers? Most dealers are not large enough, nor saavy enough to see how top notch customer service can positively impact sales, because it takes too long for it to make a change.

I humbly suggest that Chrysler would be wise to offer some sort of serious discount on cars to be used in a loaner fleet. And not the base level stuff either, but the top end stuff. You have a Dart that has an issue? You get a 300 Limited loaner ( or whatever the mid-upper level model is.. ) Give the unhappy customer something to aspire towards... make the experience something to keep the customer coming back. Dont give them a reason to go looking elsewhere.

Yes the dealers are equally culpable in this as well, but again, most of them are looking at profitibility on a month to month basis. Its pretty hard for them to justify spending hundreds of thousands of dollars up front on loaner cars to satisfy customers, let alone the adequately pay the techs to repair these cars.

Chrysler can mandate all it wants, but until it is willing to become a financial partner in the process of keeping customers happy, I doubt that you will see much change in the majority of the dealer body.

Right wrong or indifferent, thats how it is.

Mr.Source · Mar 6, 2014

Dave said:
I don't know about most dealers, but certainly there are still a lot of very bad ones. Some Chrysler was forced to take back... others they just didn't get rid of when they could, because I guess they were focused on pissing contests instead of customer service. But that's neither here nor there.

That said, the thing to do when you have a problem is call Chrysler and if that fails, write. People here have reported a very high success rate in problems suddenly getting solved.

It's always an option, but customer must be respected, so nasty dealers should get what they deserve.

Dave, for years we are experiencing more problems because of a bad service provided by dealers, many times, dealers are making a big problem from a small one, many have no idea what they are doing, they just want the customers money.

Chryslers problem has been for decades the bad service dealers are giving, of course Chrysler is still having quality problems, but dealers make those problem worst.

AN: February from a Chrysler perspective

Dave Z

md80891

md80891

Mr.Source

JoshMHam

Mr.Source

md80891

Mr.Source

md80891

JRS200x

Longtimejeep

JoshMHam

BASONE88

marlon_jbt

Mr.Source

Dave Z

Mr.Source

Longtimejeep

MoparDanno

Mr.Source

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