[Rick Anderson]

Rick - one reason the rear pads may appear to wear about the same as the front is simply the rear pad material is not as thick as it has been in previous models.

On my '06 Ram 1500, the front pads are usually worn done to 2 mm by the time I've logged 60K-65K miles. The first time I had the rears serviced (dealer) they were worn out at 90K - I was sort of expecting to get 110K-120K out of them. Still not bad. I recently replaced the front and rear pads at 215K so the fronts had 52K (down to 2.5mm - probably could have gone another 5K miles), but the rears were down to 1 mm - last serviced at 90K - should have serviced them earlier. Went with Car Quest ceramic pads from Advance Auto - far less dust than the MoPar Valueline pads....

Well that is part of what I meant by the rear being smaller, just as big of a factor is the overall surface area of the pad, with the rears being smaller. The rear produce less braking force, which makes sense the brakes are smaller. But don't forget, a smaller surface area to make the same braking force will need higher pressure and thus will wear the pad faster.

You bring up a good point, there are plenty of vehicles that still have the front pads wear faster than the rear, which used to be all vehicles. Perhaps a better way to say it, an increasing number of vehicles seem to have front/rear pads wearing at the same rate today.

I did ask the question about some sort of sever use that might have overheated the brakes several times. The #1 cause of warped rotors is overheating the brakes. Overheating the brakes is also a good way to ruin the rotors or maybe the pads and then they wear out at an accelerated rate.

One more cause to consider for the front shudder, seems more common today with the more advanced brakes, hard/hot spots on the rotor. You can overheat the rotor hot enough that it will change the metallurgy in the rotor, a small flaw becomes a hardened spot on the rotor surface. Even turning the rotor doesn't fix it, cause it goes below the surface. Every time the hard spot comes round and hits the pad it changes the friction on the pad and makes that brake shudder. I got it on an '02 Grand Caravan and couldn't correct it totally until I replaced the Rotor.

 

[valiant67]

One of the most common reasons for excessive wear on rear disc brakes has been the parking brake.
When the parking brake is a mini-drum setup with its own shoes inside the hub things tend to be OK.
But many designs use the rear calipers and pads as the emergency brake and these designs seem to have more issues with excessive pad wear, probably partly to user error and partly due to design (that often leads it a sticking caliper).
I don't know what the minivans use for a parking brake.

 

[Doug D]

I don't know what the minivans use for a parking brake.

I am not sure how the new minivans are in regards to the parking brake with rear discs, but I believe my '00 T&C had the mini-drum type parking brake pads inside the rotor. Same for my '06 Ram. Not sure on the Journey, but I believe they are the same. They don't use the disc pads as the emergency brakes. I haven't had to replace the rear rotors on the Journey, but on the Ram the rear rotors were noticeably more expensive to replace.

Yeah, crappy cheap rotors can develop hard spots. Had one set do that on my Ram - were warped by 15K miles. I ended up replacing them early - couldn't stand the shuddering.

 

[UN4GTBL]

Do you have rear disc or drum brakes? Compare the pad and rotor size of front and rear? In other recent 4 wheel disc brake vehicles I have owned, they seemed to be matched so the front/rear wear at the same rate. The front does most of the braking, true, but the rear being much smaller is wearing at rate to match the front.

I'm not saying you've done this, but folks that ride brakes down mountain sides/long hills instead of downshifting, can have these results with brakes. For all I know, you live in Florida and never once overheated your brakes. Its just as likely you got a bad set of rotors/pads during assembly. One or the other can ruing the other, bad pads or poorly finished rotors could ruin the good rotor/pads and wear very quickly.

Keep in mind the stability control will activate the rear brakes individually to keep directional control. But, unless you've done all 40k kilometers of your driving in heavy snow or aggressive driving in heavy rain, I can't see how stability control could wear out the rear brakes prematurely.

No I highly doubt the mini-vans are rear brake biased, and you could tell if your was if it somehow it was the result of error in assembly or a malfunction. I suspect its a combination of what I spoke about before, later vehicles having brakes matched so they wear at the same rate and some problem with the brakes off the assembly line floor to make the rears wear faster then they should.

The mini-vans have traditionally been tough on brakes, but front brakes, its the geometry of the configuration, you're going to get a lot of weight transfer on the front wheels and they are going to do all the braking. So they are going to wear faster than other vehicles. Again, you particular van the rears wearing so much faster is puzzling and likely is the result of some sort of problem. Lets hope it was the rotors and/or pads that came from the assembly line, now that you have new ones, these will wear better.

Front shudder sounds like warped rotors, BUT, it could be several things, you need to troubleshoot and narrow down the cause.

We have 4 wheel disc brakes. Rears are smaller. Since we had the new pads and rotors put on the brake dust has been MUCH less, and even on all wheels now.

The van is just over 75,000km and there is still something with the brakes that I think needs to be checked. There is a faint noise at low speeds on the passenger side.

We've had the rear calipers replaced as well because they were sticking, and I'm wondering if that is happening again. It was so bad you could smell the brakes, and the wheel was too hot to touch.

Never mind the parking brake failures.

This is our 8th minivan, so we're not new to how they use brakes, but this one seems to have been the worst one from the start.

 

[UN4GTBL]

Rick - one reason the rear pads may appear to wear about the same as the front is simply the rear pad material is not as thick as it has been in previous models.

On my '06 Ram 1500, the front pads are usually worn done to 2 mm by the time I've logged 60K-65K miles. The first time I had the rears serviced (dealer) they were worn out at 90K - I was sort of expecting to get 110K-120K out of them. Still not bad. I recently replaced the front and rear pads at 215K so the fronts had 52K (down to 2.5mm - probably could have gone another 5K miles), but the rears were down to 1 mm - last serviced at 90K - should have serviced them earlier. Went with Car Quest ceramic pads from Advance Auto - far less dust than the MoPar Valueline pads.

If the fronts are only shuddering when the brakes are applied, it more than likely is warped rotors. It could be sticky calipers, but usually there are other symptoms as well such as very hot rotors and/or smoke and smell.

I agree minvan's seem to be hard on brakes. Our '00 T&C Ltd seem to need new pads (front) every 25K-30K miles. The last set though (installed at Firestone) had at least 40K on them. The rears usually needed replacement around 60K.

The '09 Journey SXT we bought new needed the front pads replaced at only 22K miles. I later filed a claim for reimbursement as Chrysler had issued a recall on the minivan brakes for that MY followed by the extended coverage on the Journey's since they used the same brake set up. Chrysler reimbursed me in full - no deductible.

The rotors have been fine once they were replaced, so maybe they used an updated design spec?

 

[UN4GTBL]

One of the most common reasons for excessive wear on rear disc brakes has been the parking brake.
When the parking brake is a mini-drum setup with its own shoes inside the hub things tend to be OK.
But many designs use the rear calipers and pads as the emergency brake and these designs seem to have more issues with excessive pad wear, probably partly to user error and partly due to design (that often leads it a sticking caliper).
I don't know what the minivans use for a parking brake.

I'm not sure what type the 5.5th gen vans use, but they seem to be problematic.

You can't move the van with the parking brake engaged.

 

[ImperialCrown]

The pads can drag and not release if they are rusted onto the mounting bracket. I have had to hammer old pads off of the bracket. They should remove by hand.
This can act like a dragging caliper.

 

[ka9yhd]

One of the most common reasons for excessive wear on rear disc brakes has been the parking brake.
When the parking brake is a mini-drum setup with its own shoes inside the hub things tend to be OK.
But many designs use the rear calipers and pads as the emergency brake and these designs seem to have more issues with excessive pad wear, probably partly to user error and partly due to design (that often leads it a sticking caliper).
I don't know what the minivans use for a parking brake.

As I understand this when I was ordering parts for my 87 Shelby CSX, which had rear disc or drum in hat. Which is drum parking brake with rear disk. I was told that by 1989 they should all be drum in hat style rear disk from Chrysler. And if someone knows better please correct me.

 

[MPE426HEMI]

Do you have rear disc or drum brakes? Compare the pad and rotor size of front and rear? In other recent 4 wheel disc brake vehicles I have owned, they seemed to be matched so the front/rear wear at the same rate. The front does most of the braking, true, but the rear being much smaller is wearing at rate to match the front.

I'm not saying you've done this, but folks that ride brakes down mountain sides/long hills instead of downshifting, can have these results with brakes. For all I know, you live in Florida and never once overheated your brakes. Its just as likely you got a bad set of rotors/pads during assembly. One or the other can ruing the other, bad pads or poorly finished rotors could ruin the good rotor/pads and wear very quickly.

Keep in mind the stability control will activate the rear brakes individually to keep directional control. But, unless you've done all 40k kilometers of your driving in heavy snow or aggressive driving in heavy rain, I can't see how stability control could wear out the rear brakes prematurely.

No I highly doubt the mini-vans are rear brake biased, and you could tell if your was if it somehow it was the result of error in assembly or a malfunction. I suspect its a combination of what I spoke about before, later vehicles having brakes matched so they wear at the same rate and some problem with the brakes off the assembly line floor to make the rears wear faster then they should.

The mini-vans have traditionally been tough on brakes, but front brakes, its the geometry of the configuration, you're going to get a lot of weight transfer on the front wheels and they are going to do all the braking. So they are going to wear faster than other vehicles. Again, you particular van the rears wearing so much faster is puzzling and likely is the result of some sort of problem. Lets hope it was the rotors and/or pads that came from the assembly line, now that you have new ones, these will wear better.

Front shudder sounds like warped rotors, BUT, it could be several things, you need to troubleshoot and narrow down the cause.

Yes, you're correct. Most of the braking is done with the front brakes. My rears lasts about twice as long as the fronts. A new set of front pads usually lasts me about a year, pretty much. I am not the only person who drives it in my family, however. I've switched to aftermarket rotors and they have been holding up way better than whatever they were putting on at the dealership. The wear is the same as my 2001, it seems. I also live in a hilly area. I don't mind a set of pads once a year. If that's my only complaint, I'll take it. For anyone who has to go to a garage and pay for this work, I agree, it can be a real money racket. Especially if it's yearly and if they are charging you for parts you may not have needed.

 

[MPE426HEMI]

The rear parking brake on my avenger and charger have the internal shoe, but my 2011 GC have the push out/spring loaded piston that has to be turned in when replacing the pads. So the pads clamp the rotor for the parking brake. Just like some of the imports had for a good few years now.

 

[Doug D]

The rotors have been fine once they were replaced, so maybe they used an updated design spec?

I'd venture they just happen to be a bad or marginal set. It happens, unfortunately.

 

[valiant67]

As I understand this when I was ordering parts for my 87 Shelby CSX, which had rear disc or drum in hat. Which is drum parking brake with rear disk. I was told that by 1989 they should all be drum in hat style rear disk from Chrysler. And if someone knows better please correct me.

They may have switched for some of the newer cars. I don't know. I've never even looked it up for the cars I have with rear discs.

 

[MPE426HEMI]

The calipers on the rear of my 2011 DGC have the integrated emergency/parking brake. There's a lever on the back of the caliper that turns a screw inside the caliper, which in turn pushes the piston out to apply the brake pads via the parking brake pedal and cable setup. The lever don't have to move very far to do this as the thread is a high helix type with fast movement. This system can be bypassed by the hydraulic application of the brakes and the piston moves out like normal to apply the brakes and still floats like normal. If it works good all the time, I'd have no problem with it. I like it. I've had no problems so far, although I've had one rear caliper seize. Best part with this system is you need no other parts when doing brake service on the rear. The pads do it all. With the older style (in hat shoe) you needed shoes, rotor with integrated drum/hat, and the internal hardware.
Many of the new brake systems on vehicles today with Electronic Parking Brake, uses this system, but with an electric motor on the back of the caliper which turns that parking actuator screw. I don't know how many other FCA vehicles use the integrated parking brake caliper. I am sure more use it.

 

[Rick Anderson]

....Never mind the parking brake failures.....

Chrysler Rear Disc Brakes have a "Drum-in-Hat" parking brake is innovative and has advantages. They are a just a mini-drum brake inside the raised center cylinder portion of the Rotor.

People assume its just like a service drum brake, its NOT. It does NOT have automatic self adjusters, but it doesn't need them, since the parking brake should never be engaged while the vehicle is moving, the shoes should not wear. The cable has a self-adjuster for cable tension.

I have had trouble with the "Drum-in-Hat" parking brake on my '99 Neon R/T, because I (and I'm sure a lot of mechanics) did NOT read the proper adjustment procedures and adjusted them like typical service drum brakes. The "Drum-in-Hat" parking brake you have to adjust so there is NO contact with the drum what so ever. The procedure is too adjust until there is contact and then back off 3 teeth on the star wheel. On this brake, if the shoes ride on the drum surface they will produce dust and heat, the heat will expand the drum and it will engage the shoe, or the dust will wedge between the shoe and drum and engage it, and you'll have a rear wheel lock up. Once I adjusted the rear "Drum-in-Hat" parking brake according to the FSM, I never had a problem again.

My parents had trouble with the "Drum-in-Hat" parking brake on their spirit, because they simply only used the brake every once in a long while. The Dealer gave them the advice to either use it all the time or never use it. Seems in their case, corrosion was causing seizing, and engaging the parking brake resulted in it NOT releasing properly and occasionally engaging while driving. In their case, everytime the rear brakes were service, the parking brake probably should be serviced as well. Remove the rotor, inspect, clean and lube all the contact points, etc.

There are a lot of positives for the "Drum-in-Hat" parking brake, but it is an independent additional set of brakes that may go unused. So there is something to be said about parking brakes that just activate the rear service brakes, as in the rear service brakes are exercised and owners catch when they have problems, etc, thus you don't get into these problems about an unused brake suffering malfunctions from lack of exercise.

 

[UN4GTBL]

Chrysler Rear Disc Brakes have a "Drum-in-Hat" parking brake is innovative and has advantages. They are a just a mini-drum brake inside the raised center cylinder portion of the Rotor.

People assume its just like a service drum brake, its NOT. It does NOT have automatic self adjusters, but it doesn't need them, since the parking brake should never be engaged while the vehicle is moving, the shoes should not wear. The cable has a self-adjuster for cable tension.

I have had trouble with the "Drum-in-Hat" parking brake on my '99 Neon R/T, because I (and I'm sure a lot of mechanics) did NOT read the proper adjustment procedures and adjusted them like typical service drum brakes. The "Drum-in-Hat" parking brake you have to adjust so there is NO contact with the drum what so ever. The procedure is too adjust until there is contact and then back off 3 teeth on the star wheel. On this brake, if the shoes ride on the drum surface they will produce dust and heat, the heat will expand the drum and it will engage the shoe, or the dust will wedge between the shoe and drum and engage it, and you'll have a rear wheel lock up. Once I adjusted the rear "Drum-in-Hat" parking brake according to the FSM, I never had a problem again.

My parents had trouble with the "Drum-in-Hat" parking brake on their spirit, because they simply only used the brake every once in a long while. The Dealer gave them the advice to either use it all the time or never use it. Seems in their case, corrosion was causing seizing, and engaging the parking brake resulted in it NOT releasing properly and occasionally engaging while driving. In their case, everytime the rear brakes were service, the parking brake probably should be serviced as well. Remove the rotor, inspect, clean and lube all the contact points, etc.

There are a lot of positives for the "Drum-in-Hat" parking brake, but it is an independent additional set of brakes that may go unused. So there is something to be said about parking brakes that just activate the rear service brakes, as in the rear service brakes are exercised and owners catch when they have problems, etc, thus you don't get into these problems about an unused brake suffering malfunctions from lack of exercise.

Thanks!

The dealer said that parking brakes are more trouble than they are worth, and most mechanics don't use them. I think it's just a case of what you said - being unfamiliar with the adjustment procedures.

 

[73chargerse]

Seems my wife's '13 GC needs new rear pads at 60k miles. Inside pad is toast, outside has about 25-35% left. While looking up replacements, how do I know if I've got the heavy duty or not?

 

[ImperialCrown]

Do you have a list of your vehicle options or sales codes?
I see a choice of single (STD) or dual (HD) piston front calipers.
If there is unequal inner and outer pad wear, look for pads binding on their mounts or calipers binding on their slider pins. Everything should move freely. Use hi-temp brake grease for reassembly.
You may need the special tool to retract the rear caliper pistons.

 

[73chargerse]

I don't have an options list. We bought it used just over a year ago. Are these the type of piston that needs to be turned to get it back in?

 

[73chargerse]

They were the regular duty breaks, I did need the special tool to turn the caliper piston, and I replaced the steel slides that the pads fit into as well as greased them. I think I'll check the fronts in the next month.

 

[TaxiGirl]

I have a 2011 and the rear brakes have gone out once in 233,000 miles. They did not actually go out. It is the rattling that drives you crazy. I use thermo-quiet ceramics front and back. I change front brakes every 6 months or so as soon as it starts to squeak. I have changed both front calipers and both rotors. I get my rotors turned and change them out sometimes just for the heck of it. Brakes are a normal thing to go out. I do not know about there but here at Autozone you can buy a set a get a life time warranty for replacement. I did buy brakes there before but, I did not go back. I like the thermo quiet brakes. I have not noticed ever that my brakes work more from the back. But, when they rattle when you go over the bumps, then I would change them.