[Zagnut27]

While that is true, that's not what Ford did. They used the same basic coil-over shock design used by most other 4x4 trucks, with certain modifications.
So the limiting factors are still differential clearance and the angles that the CV joints have to cycle through when the suspension compresses and unloads.
These two issues do not affect the articulation of a live axle, the limit is how much the driveshaft double cardan joints can articulate.

I meant to qualify that by saying what COULD be done, and not necessarily what Bronco has. On paper, Bronco has impressive numbers with more wheel travel than a Wrangler, a better RTI score, and according to Bob S a better VCI. Any vehicle is only as strong as it’s parts though, and typically solid axles are more durable...but it depends on design and quality of parts. Jeep has been lacking in the parts department of late, and Ford has been having quality issues so perhaps it’s a dead heat....with the emphasis on “dead”. Lol.

Personally, I like the idea of an IFS. It’s a more comfortable ride, especially on my commute over the pothole covered roads into Philly. My Liberty was much more comfortable to drive than my TJ, though the longer wheelbase helped too. But we all know about the crappy IFS used in Liberty....

 

[suzq044]

Not sure what that trim is but I sat in a Bronco Sport...can't remember the trim level but it was stickered over $30K and was very base rental car like. Total letdown IMO...the only good to me was the room.

I looked at one a few days ago myself; the one thing that struck me is that the iinterior is very much an Escape. lol

 

[Erik Latranyi]

I agree that the Bronco Sport interior is cheap. If I had to guess, management was not sold on the idea and cut corners.

If sales are sustained, they can improve the interior with the refresh in a few years.

The Bronco itself uses a lot of durability knowledge that came from the Raptor (which is IFS). From what I understand, the Bronco from shafts are almost 1" thick to ensure strength.

 

[Chase300]

Good point in that the Bronco and Bronco Sport are 2 different vehicles so we should not group them together and the Bronco's interior might be much better than the Bronco Sport...or maybe I should say more appropriate for its intended function.

 

[Zagnut27]

Well considering my last 2 daily drivers were my 03 Liberty and my 98 TJ, I suppose you could impress me with just about anything interior-wise. Lol.

Though the interior on my Mustang, our Explorer, and my wife’s Encore are quite nice. The A3 had a nice interior...just the car itself was rolling crap.

 

[LouJC]

I'll be interested to see them out on the beach this summer. Hopefully the owners will be smart enough to air down and not depend on all the whiz-bang tech stuff. And there, airing down is 15-12 psi not 20. I've seen all manner of over equipped 4x4 trucks get stuck because they can't be bothered to air down, they fly past us at the entrance and then we see them again, in the first mushy part of the entrance road, kicking up rooster trails of sand....this doesn't look challenging at all....but at full tire pressure you will have all 4 tires digging till you are on the frame rails....
....the problem with technology is it distracts people from understanding the basics.....

 

[Zagnut27]

No, technology doesn’t distract one from understanding or paying attention to the basics. You either pay attention, or you do not. Technology has quite an upside, and can help a vehicle perform even better. Not understanding what the vehicle can do is just laziness on the part of the driver. I’ve seen plenty of drivers in simple 4x4’s get stuck or go off the road because they didn’t understand (or care about) the limitations of their vehicle. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[Tony K]

I know many are tired of the same-old Wrangler look. From CJ to TJ to JK, there was some styling changes. The average person cannot tell a JL from a JK. It goes back to FCA's bland styling mandates from the top down.

Wrangler will always look like an evolved Willys. It's the iconic Jeep. Jeep isn't going to mess too much with that design, stylistically, because that basic look is so a part of the brand, it would do damage to the Jeep image. It's like on the Italian side, doing away with the AR Scudetto shield. Not going to happen.

 

[LouJC]

No, technology doesn’t distract one from understanding or paying attention to the basics. You either pay attention, or you do not. Technology has quite an upside, and can help a vehicle perform even better. Not understanding what the vehicle can do is just laziness on the part of the driver. I’ve seen plenty of drivers in simple 4x4’s get stuck or go off the road because they didn’t understand (or care about) the limitations of their vehicle. Stupid is as stupid does.

Ok here's a question for you. Technology. How many people actually know how anti lock brakes work, and actually use them properly? I've spoke to many people who have no idea, at all how to use them properly!
Want proof? Well when these were an option and an expensive one, insurance companies offered a discount on your ins, if you bought this option. Then after a long study guess what they found out? That their policy holders had no idea how they worked, didn't bother to learn how they worked, they did not reduce accidents and claims and the ins companies then dropped the discount for antilock brakes!
How many people understand that if you have 4x4 but no limited slips or lockers, you really have one wheel with power in the front and one in the rear?
Its clear to me after 10+ years of beach driving, that many people don't understand the basics of driving off road especially on sand. Its all about contact pressure, not their really cool electronic 4x4 with the whiz-bang rotary shift knob. So said the girl in her stuck late model Cherokee "but it's in sand mode" to which my polite son replied, "did you air down?" "Huh?"

So....if you have only basics, then you are more likely to learn how they work, and make them work effectively. If you are wowed by the latest tech, well then you might never learn. I see them every season.
What a properly aired down tire for driving on very soft surfaces looks like!

 

[Chase300]

I grew up in Daytona Beach so our family spent many weekends on the beach and driving on both the packed and soft sand dunes when I was a kid and never knew this...All I knew was VW's for some reason rarely got stuck..so that is what we always took to the beach.

 

[Zagnut27]

Ok here's a question for you. Technology. How many people actually know how anti lock brakes work, and actually use them properly? I've spoke to many people who have no idea, at all how to use them properly!
Want proof? Well when these were an option and an expensive one, insurance companies offered a discount on your ins, if you bought this option. Then after a long study guess what they found out? That their policy holders had no idea how they worked, didn't bother to learn how they worked, they did not reduce accidents and claims and the ins companies then dropped the discount for antilock brakes!
How many people understand that if you have 4x4 but no limited slips or lockers, you really have one wheel with power in the front and one in the rear?
Its clear to me after 10+ years of beach driving, that many people don't understand the basics of driving off road especially on sand. Its all about contact pressure, not their really cool electronic 4x4 with the whiz-bang rotary shift knob. So said the girl in her stuck late model Cherokee "but it's in sand mode" to which my polite son replied, "did you air down?" "Huh?"

So....if you have only basics, then you are more likely to learn how they work, and make them work effectively. If you are wowed by the latest tech, well then you might never learn. I see them every season.
What a properly aired down tire for driving on very soft surfaces looks like!
View attachment 80196

Yes, you basically just restated what I said. “How many people actually know how...?” If one isn’t going to take the time to understand how something works, then it doesn’t matter what the “something“ is. Don’t blame technology, blame people.

 

[Tony K]

Ok here's a question for you. Technology. How many people actually know how anti lock brakes work, and actually use them properly? I've spoke to many people who have no idea, at all how to use them properly!
Want proof? Well when these were an option and an expensive one, insurance companies offered a discount on your ins, if you bought this option. Then after a long study guess what they found out? That their policy holders had no idea how they worked, didn't bother to learn how they worked, they did not reduce accidents and claims and the ins companies then dropped the discount for antilock brakes!
How many people understand that if you have 4x4 but no limited slips or lockers, you really have one wheel with power in the front and one in the rear?
Its clear to me after 10+ years of beach driving, that many people don't understand the basics of driving off road especially on sand. Its all about contact pressure, not their really cool electronic 4x4 with the whiz-bang rotary shift knob. So said the girl in her stuck late model Cherokee "but it's in sand mode" to which my polite son replied, "did you air down?" "Huh?"

Managed to get out, once I figured out what was happening (ABS/electronic stability control putting on the brakes), but I almost got stuck on Daytona Beach with my then-new 09 Challenger because I strayed ever-so-slightly off the packed sand.

 

[LouJC]

What we have today:
a whole generation of young people who:
cannot drive a manual transmission
wouldn't know how to use manual 4x4
don't check their own oil (ever!)
certainly can't change their own oil
have no idea what to do if their vehicle overheats
if their life depended on it, could not change a flat tire
as far as I am concerned, these are all examples of how "technology" makes people less capable in some ways.

Why do I blame technology, well it makes it so easy to be incapable!
Can't remember a phone number, well it doesn't matter anymore till you lose your phone and you don't have it stored in the 'cloud'
cant read a map, don't know how to figure out directions? ask yourself why is that so common? Because technology makes it too easy to not learn. All people know today, is how to plug in an address, when the GPS doesn't boot up, they are helpless.
This happened once when we were leaving Montreal QC, after the F-1 race. My son just got his license, wanted to drive home to NY State and the GPS and 2 phones could not get a signal. What now Dad?
What now is we pull out a map and find where you are, figure out what direction you have to travel in to find Autoroute 15 to head back to NY State, and use the built in compass in the Jeep (all 3 have this) to find the road! And it worked, wonder of wonders. Because why, he learned how to read a map in Boy Scouts.
I rest my case!

 

[LouJC]

I grew up in Daytona Beach so our family spent many weekends on the beach and driving on both the packed and soft sand dunes when I was a kid and never knew this...All I knew was VW's for some reason rarely got stuck..so that is what we always took to the beach.

I had a couple of them, a '65 Beetle and a Dune Buggy, with the wide tall tires aired down the Buggy was just great in sand. Light, 2 wheel drive and the weight of the transaxle/engine right over the drive wheels.

 

[Zagnut27]

What we have today:
a whole generation of young people who:
cannot drive a manual transmission
wouldn't know how to use manual 4x4
don't check their own oil (ever!)
certainly can't change their own oil
have no idea what to do if their vehicle overheats
if their life depended on it, could not change a flat tire
as far as I am concerned, these are all examples of how "technology" makes people less capable in some ways.

Why do I blame technology, well it makes it so easy to be incapable!
Can't remember a phone number, well it doesn't matter anymore till you lose your phone and you don't have it stored in the 'cloud'
cant read a map, don't know how to figure out directions? ask yourself why is that so common? Because technology makes it too easy to not learn. All people know today, is how to plug in an address, when the GPS doesn't boot up, they are helpless.
This happened once when we were leaving Montreal QC, after the F-1 race. My son just got his license, wanted to drive home to NY State and the GPS and 2 phones could not get a signal. What now Dad?
What now is we pull out a map and find where you are, figure out what direction you have to travel in to find Autoroute 15 to head back to NY State, and use the built in compass in the Jeep (all 3 have this) to find the road! And it worked, wonder of wonders. Because why, he learned how to read a map in Boy Scouts.
I rest my case!

There aren’t many manual transmissions available anymore, so that’s not much of a concern. Should we be wringing our hands because kids today don’t know how to hitch a horse to a buggy?

If kids today can’t read a map, change oil, do basic maintenance, etc, is that their fault or the fault of the previous generation for not teaching them?

Nobody is saying that doing all of those things are bad, or knowing how to use a map or compass are useless. Technology just augments that or allows us to better do things than those simple devices can. Find your way through a vast, featureless desert? Yeah, GPS was invaluable during the first Gulf War. Finding your way on the open ocean? GPS helps with that too. Flying a plane at high altitudes? You better have your instrumentation. Can you get by with a simple map, compass, astrolabe, etc? Yes, in some cases. In some cases, no or at least not well. But knowing how those simple devices work can be beneficial when all else fails. Does that cancel the benefits of technology? Absolutely not. Everything we have today was once new, and replaced something else. Should we go back to those older devices too? Horse-drawn plows instead of tractors? Rowing a boat instead of using a motor? Sowing by hand instead of using a machine? Flint and steel instead of a lighter? Bow and arrow instead of firearms?

Technology ain’t bad. New things ain’t bad. Not bothering to learn how to use stuff properly, no matter what it is, is bad.

Now i rest my case!

 

[LouJC]

Here’s what can happen when people depend too much on automation and training is inadequate:
The case of Air France 447.

 

[Zagnut27]

Here's a couple of other things to add to your list:

How many young people can parallel park, without depending on the "auto" feature of their car?

And depending on the auto-correct or auto-spell function of their smart device, no need to learn how to spell.

How many older people can parallel park? How many older people can spell? How many of them know the difference between your and you’re? Just reading some posts on this website, you can see that many do not.

See? It works both ways. So once again, who again is responsible for teaching the “younger people” the right way? If they don’t know, it would seem the “older generation” did a lousy job of teaching.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

When the Cherokee came out and it relied on electronics to provide capability, many of us said this was a dangerous place for Jeep to go.

Rather than using such technical "wizardry" alone, Jeep still needed great suspension engineers (and others) so the hardware remained a step ahead.

We were concerned that it would not take much for another manufacturer to use the same electronic "wizardry" to make competitors to these soft Jeeps.

Well, we stand here today with the Bronco Sport Badlands beating the Jeep Compass Trailhawk off-road.

The Bronco is not just relying on the tech. They brought in the best engineers and took direct aim at Wrangler.

This is the perfect case study of a company sitting on its posterior.

 

[valiant67]

I think it's funny when we say people are too dependent on technology because they can't use a map or change their own oil. Or the memes on Facebook about not knowing how to dial a telephone or set points in a car.
But I'm betting the people who smuggly post those memes probably can't start a car with a hand crank, churn their own butter, or hook up a team of oxen and plow a field.
I can read a map, but don't need to. I can change my own oil, but I don't need to.

 

[valiant67]

When the Cherokee came out and it relied on electronics to provide capability, many of us said this was a dangerous place for Jeep to go.

Rather than using such technical "wizardry" alone, Jeep still needed great suspension engineers (and others) so the hardware remained a step ahead.

We were concerned that it would not take much for another manufacturer to use the same electronic "wizardry" to make competitors to these soft Jeeps.

Well, we stand here today with the Bronco Sport Badlands beating the Jeep Compass Trailhawk off-road.

The Bronco is not just relying on the tech. They brought in the best engineers and took direct aim at Wrangler.

This is the perfect case study of a company sitting on its posterior.

I remember the videos posted on Allpar of these FWD based Jeeps on the portable obstacle course at some auto show. Articulation was minimal and the Jeeps violently tilted from one side to another as they went over the obstacles with a wheel lifted in the air - compare that to a Wrangler doing the same course.
It would be interesting to see the Fords in the same setup. See how Bronco Sport and especially Bronco does in articulation.