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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
I remember the videos posted on Allpar of these FWD based Jeeps on the portable obstacle course at some auto show. Articulation was minimal and the Jeeps violently tilted from one side to another as they went over the obstacles with a wheel lifted in the air - compare that to a Wrangler doing the same course.
It would be interesting to see the Fords in the same setup. See how Bronco Sport and especially Bronco does in articulation.
I have seen both Bronco Sport and Bronco in high articulation situations.

The Bronco Sport has the least articulation, of course. It is independent suspension all around, but Ford gave it more articulation and height than the Jeeps. It is competitive with the Cherokee with regard to approach/departure, ground clearance, etc. Bronco Sport lacks a mechanical locker (it uses locking clutches that have overheated in some tests).

I have not seen a Bronco Sport be compared directly to a Cherokee.....only to a Compass and Renegade, which the Bronco Sport beat fairly easily.

The Bronco is another matter. It has great articulation, even with the IFS. It will keep all four wheels planted up to 95% of the Wrangler's articulation. But the Bronco front suspension keeps the tires planted more firmly than the Wrangler since a solid axle shifts weight to the lower side more than an IFS. The 35s give it great ground clearance. When not literally crawling, the Bronco destroys the Wrangler with more steady and sure absorption of bumps and dips. Therefore, those driving into a camp or into an off-road park will have a much better time than if they were driving a Wrangler.

The Bronco Sport was definitely done on the cheap. Lousy interior materials and a lack of some off-road chops demonstrates this. It still beats anything in its class (Cherokee unknown). I predict if the sales remain strong, then the refresh and next generation will be a big surprise.

I predict the Bronco will be name the new "king' of the off-road. I predict Wrangler sales will be hurt by at least 30%, probably more.

All this is predicated on no major quality gaffes from Ford on the Bronco.
 

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I have seen both Bronco Sport and Bronco in high articulation situations.

The Bronco Sport has the least articulation, of course. It is independent suspension all around, but Ford gave it more articulation and height than the Jeeps. It is competitive with the Cherokee with regard to approach/departure, ground clearance, etc. Bronco Sport lacks a mechanical locker (it uses locking clutches that have overheated in some tests).

I have not seen a Bronco Sport be compared directly to a Cherokee.....only to a Compass and Renegade, which the Bronco Sport beat fairly easily.

The Bronco is another matter. It has great articulation, even with the IFS. It will keep all four wheels planted up to 95% of the Wrangler's articulation. But the Bronco front suspension keeps the tires planted more firmly than the Wrangler since a solid axle shifts weight to the lower side more than an IFS. The 35s give it great ground clearance. When not literally crawling, the Bronco destroys the Wrangler with more steady and sure absorption of bumps and dips. Therefore, those driving into a camp or into an off-road park will have a much better time than if they were driving a Wrangler.

The Bronco Sport was definitely done on the cheap. Lousy interior materials and a lack of some off-road chops demonstrates this. It still beats anything in its class (Cherokee unknown). I predict if the sales remain strong, then the refresh and next generation will be a big surprise.

I predict the Bronco will be name the new "king' of the off-road. I predict Wrangler sales will be hurt by at least 30%, probably more.

All this is predicated on no major quality gaffes from Ford on the Bronco.
It won't take much Bronco (not Sport) erosion to cut into Wrangler margins. Wrangler needs a strong mid-cycle refresh (with Gladiator getting the same soon after).
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
It won't take much Bronco (not Sport) erosion to cut into Wrangler margins. Wrangler needs a strong mid-cycle refresh (with Gladiator getting the same soon after).
Yes, Wrangler sales are supporting two large assembly plants now. Gladiator helps the volume, but if total sales (Wrangler + Gladiator) fall below 200k, one plant become pointless.
 
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I have seen both Bronco Sport and Bronco in high articulation situations.

The Bronco Sport has the least articulation, of course. It is independent suspension all around, but Ford gave it more articulation and height than the Jeeps. It is competitive with the Cherokee with regard to approach/departure, ground clearance, etc. Bronco Sport lacks a mechanical locker (it uses locking clutches that have overheated in some tests).

I have not seen a Bronco Sport be compared directly to a Cherokee.....only to a Compass and Renegade, which the Bronco Sport beat fairly easily.

The Bronco is another matter. It has great articulation, even with the IFS. It will keep all four wheels planted up to 95% of the Wrangler's articulation. But the Bronco front suspension keeps the tires planted more firmly than the Wrangler since a solid axle shifts weight to the lower side more than an IFS. The 35s give it great ground clearance. When not literally crawling, the Bronco destroys the Wrangler with more steady and sure absorption of bumps and dips. Therefore, those driving into a camp or into an off-road park will have a much better time than if they were driving a Wrangler.

The Bronco Sport was definitely done on the cheap. Lousy interior materials and a lack of some off-road chops demonstrates this. It still beats anything in its class (Cherokee unknown). I predict if the sales remain strong, then the refresh and next generation will be a big surprise.

I predict the Bronco will be name the new "king' of the off-road. I predict Wrangler sales will be hurt by at least 30%, probably more.

All this is predicated on no major quality gaffes from Ford on the Bronco.
People keep mentioning “if Ford doesn’t have any quality issues”, and I think I’ve mentioned it too. But Explorer had production issues in 2019 and still sold over 187k. With 11 or so recalls in 2020, they still sold over 226k. And it’s not like Wrangler/Gladiator don’t have issues as well. I’m not so sure quality issues are enough to impact sales severely, unless they affect production...as in parts shortages and what not.
 
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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
People keep mentioning “if Ford doesn’t have any quality issues”, and I think I’ve mentioned it too. But Explorer had production issues in 2019 and still sold over 187k. With 11 or so recalls in 2020, they still sold over 226k. And it’s not like Wrangler/Gladiator don’t have issues as well. I’m not so sure quality issues are enough to impact sales severely, unless they affect production...as in parts shortages and what not.
Yes, I agree.

I mean the types of quality gaffes that make headlines and penetrate into ordinary people's lives.....not just those on the radar of us who are auto junkies.
 

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Good point in that the Bronco and Bronco Sport are 2 different vehicles so we should not group them together and the Bronco's interior might be much better than the Bronco Sport...or maybe I should say more appropriate for its intended function.
They really should've gone with bronco and bronco II. Sport sounds like a trim level not a whole model. My husband thought it was just the trim level when he saw one on the road
 

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People keep mentioning “if Ford doesn’t have any quality issues”, and I think I’ve mentioned it too. But Explorer had production issues in 2019 and still sold over 187k. With 11 or so recalls in 2020, they still sold over 226k. And it’s not like Wrangler/Gladiator don’t have issues as well. I’m not so sure quality issues are enough to impact sales severely, unless they affect production...as in parts shortages and what not.
How many of those explorers are fleet? Probably a lot of them. If ford doesn't differentiate, you will never know, but as many police fleets have them, I'd gather a lot of them are fleet. It does make a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
They really should've gone with bronco and bronco II. Sport sounds like a trim level not a whole model. My husband thought it was just the trim level when he saw one on the road
I agree that the names are creating confusion.

Without having the Bronco in showrooms, people think they have already seen the Bronco when they have only seen the Sport.

You idea would have been good.
 
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How many of those explorers are fleet? Probably a lot of them. If ford doesn't differentiate, you will never know, but as many police fleets have them, I'd gather a lot of them are fleet. It does make a difference.
Ford used to separate the Interceptor Utility sales, but (like Charger) they no longer break out the police unit sales volume.
 

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How many of those explorers are fleet? Probably a lot of them. If ford doesn't differentiate, you will never know, but as many police fleets have them, I'd gather a lot of them are fleet. It does make a difference.
Yes, but IIRC Dave Z said that all the US brands have sizable fleet sales, so it affects them all. Perhaps not all equally, but I think that probably depends upon the year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
If the Bronco is a success, I predict that the JL will be the last SFA Wrangler produced. Stellantis will let the aftermarket make bolt-on solid front axles for those that want it.

Given the success and capability of the Raptor and TRX, we may see a complete swing to high articulation independent axles instead.

I would love to hear what @Bob sheaves thinks about this.
 

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If the Bronco is a success, I predict that the JL will be the last SFA Wrangler produced. Stellantis will let the aftermarket make bolt-on solid front axles for those that want it.

Given the success and capability of the Raptor and TRX, we may see a complete swing to high articulation independent axles instead.

I would love to hear what @Bob sheaves thinks about this.
Jeep didn't do itself any favors with the poor suspension welds on JL and aluminum steering boxes on the JL and JT.
Too long the excuse was the poor steering was a "Jeep thing". Those of us coming from JKs knew that was BS.
 

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I really wanted to go to the Atlanta International Auto Show to see the Bronco and any new Jeep models there.
But between things I wanted to see likely being behind barriers and COVID, I passed.
 
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