The problem is there’s no desire to keep the current Windsor and Belvidere products flowing and resources are diverted elsewhere. That tells me they are low margin. Likely expensive to produce versus the price they can get. Much was made about moving the minivan upscale at Pacifica launch. That didn’t go as planned. Cherokee has almost always had high incentives since launch. The same reason FCA left the sedan market (low margins from less than competitive entries) is now being felt in the CUV space.
Renegade facelift '23
1 - 10 of 142 Posts
I’d hope for a better replacement for the Cherokee. And that they’d learned why they failed in the midsize sedan market so they would not keep repeating those mistakes in other segments.I absolutely agree with you, but if you were running the company, would you shut down the factory, or would you plan a better replacement for the Cherokee?
It’s not just selling price. I think the “roots” of the failed Dart/200 and the not moving as well as expected Cherokee and Pacifica make them more expensive to build. Just my guess, I have no inside information. If you want to succeed in the lower price segment, you can’t have a pricey “platform”.The problem with the low margin product is the management. They are perfectly happy to sell low margin Fiats, Peugeots and Citroens in Europe and LATAM. $10K Fiats are fine but heaven forbid we get a Chrysler or Dodge with an MSRP under $25K in the US.
The problem with the Cherokee is it isn't Jeep enough for the diehards and it is too Jeep for the general public. They need a Dodge SUV to go after RAV4, CR-V, Rogue, Equinox and CX-5. Lightweight and FWD. Then there needs to be a Jeep version that goes after Forester and Outback, AWD only with different degrees of off road ready. Throw out the Fiat CUSW platform and put it on the Peugeot EMP2 platform. All AWD models are hybrids with electric AWD. The Jeep can sell at low volumes because it runs down the same line as the high volume Dodge.
They don't need more brand specific platforms. They don't need a BOF Wrangler and a Unibody Wrangler named Cherokee. That will have even less appeal outside the Jeep core buyers.
They failed with the midsize sedan because it was overweight and under wheelbase for the segment, and they refused to sufficiently update the engines with direct injection and offer a turbo 4. Messing up the transmission tuning the first year didn't help.
Chrysler needs CUV/SUV offerings. I also think Chrysler needs to keep a foothold in the sedan market as trends will change.
I didn’t get your analysis as what the post was about. Rather than raw numbers, Encore sales were rising, while Renegade had peaked and was dropping (all pre-Covid).Im lost..... so your saying 554,918 units since 2015 for the Renegade is bad compared to the 574,990 since 2013 for the Encore is good even with the 2 year headstart?
Still I think Renegade did (and probably still is doing) better than initially planned in the US.
I hang around with a lot of hard core Jeepers. I’m not one by the way. I never go much beyond better slightly larger tires. The idea these serious Jeep people prefer the 2 door for its shorter length just isn’t true anymore. Most all the recent big builds are the 4 doors and an increasing number are Gladiators.
I’m in the eastern US, where big 4 door Wrangler builds dominate the others. Sure there are older Jeeps line XJs and TJs around but 4 door JKs and JLs dominate the builds.
The people building Jeeps are a very good indicator of where the serious Jeep market is at.The minute you talk about builds you aren't talking about the majority of people who take their Wranglers off road. You can off road a stock Wrangler.
If we want to talk stock jeeps that go off road occasionally, the 2 door is still a small percentage of those.
With JK, 2 doors were around 25% of the total.
With JL it's fallen to less than 15%.
No matter how you want to spin it - from hardcore off roaders, to occasional off roaders or never off roaders - very few people are buying the 2 door Wrangler. The 4 door is the heart of the market now.
Jeeze, I've ridden in the back seat of 4 door Wranglers (JK and JL) and it's not bad back there. Even the 2 door Wrangler isn't that bad in the back seat once you are in.
Cherokee has always been bad. And by bad I mean high incentives to get the number of sales to what they were.While I agree that those numbers look bad, we have no idea to what degree they throttled production of those models to make sure they could support initial demand for the four new models that showed up last year. If you go back to 2019 those vehicles all did much better. Renegade was at 77k, Compass at 144k, and Cherokee at 191k.
Renegade has never been aimed at the US market anyway. They sell it here because they figure they might as well but US sales are no more than 1/3 of global sales in any given year. It sells better in Europe and Brazil, for example, which is the market they designed it for.
It is really sad that Cherokee isn't a more competitive product. Or that all three small Jeeps combined are outsold by RAV4. Or that small Jeeps tanked so bad (some of which would be parts allocation, certainly) in 2021, that RAV4 almost doubled the sales of all three small Jeeps put together (in US sales).
The smaller CUV segment is being gobbled up by Toyota just like the small and midsize sedan segments were. Nothing appears to have been learned.
1 - 10 of 142 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Allpar Forums
A forum community dedicated to Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Chrysler, AMC owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
